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View Full Version : The mystery of ice-making in ancient times?







pirestani
03-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Who knows the way in which the ancients used to make ice in warm weather?
If you do not know the answers ,just put yourself in their shoes and give it a whirl.

baycuclaudyu
03-01-2012, 06:07 PM
In the winter time they put ice in the bottom hill, to avoid the sun radiations. In this way they can use ice untill on the middle of summer.
That comunity have monthly portions to use in their families.
Of couse that on that time comunities were more organized.;)

desA
03-01-2012, 07:27 PM
An interesting link:

http://www.rogersrefrig.com/history.html

install monkey
03-01-2012, 07:55 PM
Who knows the way in which the ancients used to make ice in warm weather?
my ancients would trundle to the kichen and have a look in the ice box behind the frozen peas- normally it was either a kelvinator or a hotpoint ice diamond!;);)

stufus
03-01-2012, 09:23 PM
Who care's ???
I won't be getting a service call of them ,therefore I won't be making any money out of them.:p:p
My great aunt is 102yrs old (that's ancient)and she uses a Zanussi frost free jobbie.:D
As for putting myself in their shoes, did they have shoes back then?
I'm always hearing story's about my elders walking to school barefoot, not that I ever believed them.
Cheers
Stu

install monkey
03-01-2012, 11:21 PM
stu your elders have webbed toes so they couldnt wear shoes-thats why you did sports at school in flip flops haha

Magoo
04-01-2012, 12:44 AM
Hi Stu,
102 and not out is a fairly inings standing at the wicket. Have you checked that she is still breathing latelly. Hopefully I don't live that long, I would be a seriously grumpy old fart by then.

pirestani
04-01-2012, 02:51 AM
Ancient time.I meant very old time like B.C.
Think about it and give an opinion.

mikeref
04-01-2012, 03:08 AM
No-one back then made ice. Not even when convicts were shipped over to Australia from England. Pickled, dried and salted vegetables and meat was the order of the day, 200 odd years ago. Hard times :rolleyes:.

MikeHolm
04-01-2012, 03:13 AM
Who care's ???
I won't be getting a service call of them ,therefore I won't be making any money out of them.:p:p
My great aunt is 102yrs old (that's ancient)and she uses a Zanussi frost free jobbie.:D
As for putting myself in their shoes, did they have shoes back then?
I'm always hearing story's about my elders walking to school barefoot, not that I ever believed them.
Cheers
Stu


Uphill both ways, stu?

MikeHolm
04-01-2012, 03:17 AM
No-one back then made ice. Not even when convicts were shipped over to Australia from England. Pickled, dried and salted vegetables and meat was the order of the day, 200 odd years ago. Hard times :rolleyes:.

Actually, before it was torn down, I had the chance to see a 120 year old communal ice box for a small town. It took ice from lake Erie (great lakes) and it had 2 or 3 ft of cork on the floor, walls and ceiling. I was told it would last all summer.

stufus
04-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Yes MIke up hill both ways and in snowy times they put their schoolbooks on their feet.:)


Actually, before it was torn down, I had the chance to see a 120 year old communal ice box for a small town. It took ice from lake Erie (great lakes) and it had 2 or 3 ft of cork on the floor, walls and ceiling. I was told it would last all summer.

So strictly speaking they didn't make ice , they acquired it from the lake already frozen .

I noticed in Back to the Future 3 last week the doc invented the first automated ice machine in 1885:D
Cheers
Stu

Tesla
04-01-2012, 08:21 PM
The Romans used to put lots of snow into a deep straw linned shaft, the snow would then form ice at the bottom from the pressure of the snow above.
There are older methods which I will add after work.

stufus
04-01-2012, 08:29 PM
Here goes...
mainly : Icehouses were used to store ice formed in the winter to make ice available year-round,

for more information:
Ice has long been valued as a means of cooling. Until recently, the Hungarian Parliament building used ice harvested in the winter from Lake Balaton for air conditioning. Icehouses were used to store ice formed in the winter to make ice available year-round, and early refrigerators were known as iceboxes because they had a block of ice in them. In many cities it was not unusual to have a regular ice delivery service during the summer. For the first half of the 19th century, ice harvesting had become big business in America. New Englander Frederick Tudor, who became known as the “Ice King,” worked on developing better insulation products for the long distance shipment of ice, especially to the tropics. The advent of artificial refrigeration technology has since made delivery of ice obsolete.

In 400 BC Iran, Persian engineers had already mastered the technique of storing ice in the middle of summer in the desert. The ice was brought in during the winters from nearby mountains in bulk amounts, and stored in specially designed, naturally cooled refrigerators, called yakhchal (meaning ice storage). This was a large underground space (up to 5000 m) that had thick walls (at least two meters at the base) made out of a special mortar called sārooj, composed of sand, clay, egg whites, lime, goat hair, and ash in specific proportions, and which was resistant to heat transfer. This mixture was thought to be completely water impenetrable. The space often had access to a Qanat, and often contained a system of windcatchers that could easily bring temperatures inside the space down to frigid levels in summer days. The ice was then used to chill treats for royalty during hot summer days.
Source(s):From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So technically the didn't make ice they harvested and stored it !!
Cheers
Stu

MikeHolm
04-01-2012, 11:45 PM
Here goes...
mainly : Icehouses were used to store ice formed in the winter to make ice available year-round,

for more information:
Ice has long been valued as a means of cooling. Until recently, the Hungarian Parliament building used ice harvested in the winter from Lake Balaton for air conditioning. Icehouses were used to store ice formed in the winter to make ice available year-round, and early refrigerators were known as iceboxes because they had a block of ice in them. In many cities it was not unusual to have a regular ice delivery service during the summer. For the first half of the 19th century, ice harvesting had become big business in America. New Englander Frederick Tudor, who became known as the “Ice King,” worked on developing better insulation products for the long distance shipment of ice, especially to the tropics. The advent of artificial refrigeration technology has since made delivery of ice obsolete.

In 400 BC Iran, Persian engineers had already mastered the technique of storing ice in the middle of summer in the desert. The ice was brought in during the winters from nearby mountains in bulk amounts, and stored in specially designed, naturally cooled refrigerators, called yakhchal (meaning ice storage). This was a large underground space (up to 5000 m) that had thick walls (at least two meters at the base) made out of a special mortar called sārooj, composed of sand, clay, egg whites, lime, goat hair, and ash in specific proportions, and which was resistant to heat transfer. This mixture was thought to be completely water impenetrable. The space often had access to a Qanat, and often contained a system of windcatchers that could easily bring temperatures inside the space down to frigid levels in summer days. The ice was then used to chill treats for royalty during hot summer days.
Source(s):

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So technically the didn't make ice they harvested and stored it !!
Cheers
Stu

Smarty pants

stufus
05-01-2012, 12:01 AM
All part of the service Mike:p
Cheers
Stu

mikeref
05-01-2012, 12:13 AM
Who was that masked man?? Jumps in, makes a comment then disappears? I call that a hit and run :D

MikeHolm
05-01-2012, 01:02 AM
Gotta make the rounds to all my friendly forums, chums.....

For example, on one VW forum, the common port-a -loo is called the "Turdis". Now that is Campervan Culture...makes me laugh

mad fridgie
05-01-2012, 01:05 AM
In my past life, i was married to my wife, as her heart is totally void of energy, is therefore very cold, so as a caveman, I placed water on her chest, which froze instantly, i then sold this ice to the big wig cavemen. Or she if was not willing, which is just about all of the time, I would place a thin container with lots of surface area containing water , out at night in a windy spot, when the web bulb temp is below freezing point I made ice. Which in the desert is quite common.

MikeHolm
05-01-2012, 01:11 AM
good thing you specified the time frame about when you were married to this woman. You might have been on the couch this eve.

mad fridgie
05-01-2012, 01:14 AM
Same wife, "couch", that is heaven, I can not get out of the dog box!!!!!!!! woof woof woof

stufus
05-01-2012, 11:25 AM
An early invention by Albert Einstein has been rebuilt by scientists at Oxford University who are trying to develop an environmentally friendly refrigerator that runs without electricity.

Modern fridges are notoriously damaging to the environment. They work by compressing and expanding man-made greenhouse gases called *****s - far more damaging that carbon dioxide - and are being manufactured in increasing numbers. Sales of fridges around the world are rising as demand increases in developing countries.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________

The longest journey starts with a single step!!!!!!
flowers for valentines (http://www.flowers2world.com/valentine/valentines-day-flowers.asp)

You won't find to many romantics around here , so trying to sell flowers here is a waste of time as the above post's suggest!
Cheers
Stu

MikeHolm
05-01-2012, 11:26 AM
I reported it too Stu

stufus
05-01-2012, 11:30 AM
I accidentally gave him rep points instead of flagging it. HAHA:o
Stay vigilant Mike "It's a jungle out there":cool:
Cheers
Stu

I reported it too Stu

pirestani
06-01-2012, 11:52 AM
A possible answer;
It have been written somewhere in an old national story about ancients,fighter men could change"the spirit of fire" to "ice" by capturing them into the flexible trapped sack and taking them to the middle of oceans by their long trip sail ship.
Now there are a few theories which assume those "spirit of fire" were possibly mixture of butane&propane etc which were available over some oil wells . they were locating the sack(or goatskin) inside an insulated pail and dropping them to sink to the sea's depths. after hours the gas inside sack could be condensed (because temp.and pressure were suitable enough )then they hauled up the pail hanging in rope very rapidly.this time liquid inside tends to be evaporated (boiled) because of sudden decrease of pressure (near atmosphere). sacks skin absorb heat from water in pail around itself and make ice layers .
Of course I'm sure many hidden tricks must be used during that process.can we have other comments to complete this theory?

pirestani
07-01-2012, 06:08 PM
A possible answer;
It have been written somewhere in an old national story about ancients,fighter men could change"the spirit of fire" to "ice" by capturing them into the flexible trapped sack and taking them to the middle of oceans by their long trip sail ship.
Now there are a few theories which assume those "spirit of fire" were possibly mixture of butane&propane etc which were available over some oil wells . they were locating the sack(or goatskin) inside an insulated pail and dropping them to sink to the sea's depths. after hours the gas inside sack could be condensed (because temp.and pressure were suitable enough )then they hauled up the pail hanging in rope very rapidly.this time liquid inside tends to be evaporated (boiled) because of sudden decrease of pressure (near atmosphere). sacks skin absorb heat from water in pail around itself and make ice layers .
Of course I'm sure many hidden tricks must be used during that process.can we have other comments to complete this theory?
S.P

monicalee
12-04-2012, 06:54 AM
I think ancient people can make a wooden box and cover it with cotton & leaves from trees. In winter time, they get ice and put ice in that wooden box. Then they can put the wooden box underground(very deep). in summer time, they can get ice!

monicalee
12-04-2012, 07:10 AM
Well modern people can make ice from ice making machine and store them in cold rooms.

Tesla
12-04-2012, 10:34 AM
Well it's after work and a few cool beers have come up with another answer.
The ancient Egyptians in the second century used porous clay pots filled with water. River water would be settled and bottom settlement drained off. Placed on the roof at night where some poor fellow would wet down the pots when weather permitted (cool night & clear sky). At dawn the poor fellow would take the pots down stairs and pack them with straw around the pots. This method could produce ice and cold water. An Indian text 4Th century BC notes using shallow pottery dishes filled with water covered in straw or sugar cane, then placed in a draft, evaporation could produce ice and by adding salt would drop the freezing point.
I have used this trick for testing safeties before - from a fast food joint get some chilled water, cup of ice and salt then mix a little water with ice then some salt, stir with thermometer and check the temperature - it drops lower than 0degC.

Magoo
13-04-2012, 02:21 AM
Hi Telsa,
probably the same middle eastern bloke that developed the water level gauge. What I cannot figure out is where he got his length of plastic tubing, probably Bunnings, they have been around for decades.

Tesla
14-04-2012, 12:06 AM
Hi Magoo
Possibly if he lived for a few thousand years as they used the water level to build the Great Pyramid. When I was an apprentice the tradesmen told me if I wanted a cool drink on a hot day all I had to do was take off my sock put the drink bottle in it, wet the sock (if it wasn't sweaty enough) then hang it in the shade of a tree. Not really keen of the sock but it does work. Does Bunnings sell socks?