wrv163 howden compressor

[gfr04c]

Hello,
i am having problems with the following compressor howden mk1 wrv163, we had it shiped from an italian company that did maintenance to it. We have installed it but we are having problems when we turn it on, its making an abnormal noise. We have had to change one of the graphite pieces in the front already because we did not realize that the oil pump had very little pressure and i think the graphite broke because of too much friction and lack of oil. changed that pieace and its still giving me the same problme. if anyone has a diagram or an instrucion manual that would be highly appreciated.

giorgio

[gfr04c]

8342

the compressor

[gfr04c]

8343
plate

[Magoo]

Check rotation of compressor and oil pump.

[gfr04c]

how do i go about checking rotation? oil pump works well, there seems to be pressure everywhere.

[RANGER1]

gfr04c,
By nameplate this looks like high compression ratio compressor.
Can you try to explain a bit more as where noise is, as well as refrigerant type & pressures.

[gfr04c]

hello,
i am uploading a picture from the other side, could someone please explain the flow of oil. on the tube which i will indicate i open the right side of it and have loads of pressure, while opening the other side i have none. as soon as the pressure is all released i will open and see whats obstructing the oil.8345

[Magoo]

Picture looks like the economizer input assembly with check valve and strainer, allthe oil injection is done on the other side of compressor.

[Magoo]

8346
Attached is typical component layout on set.

[gfr04c]

possibly explain better, because i opened it and there is a filter and a valve which all goes to a ... not sure how to say it in english.. a clock type thing. thank you, maybe could you explain what is the use of it and when does the valve open?
Picture looks like the economizer input assembly with check valve and strainer, allthe oil injection is done on the other side of compressor.

[Magoo]

If system has an open flash or closed flash economiser, it could have pressure a regulating valve to restrict flow rate at high suction pressures and fully open at low suction pressures, protecting the electic motor from overloading.
The regulator valve will be pilot driven from main suction, possibly the noise you're hearing is the check valve chattering with low flow rates. The "clock thing " is possibly the adjustment for setting the control pressure.

[gfr04c]

ok, so what would be your advice if i hear the noise, let the compressor run for 30 minutes to see if it goes away or try and take the whole thing apart and see if there is anything in the compressor that is making the noise...

[Magoo]

Hi.
from the picture, it is not clear were the econo suction enters the assembly, can you post another pic that is clearer.
There is not much inside compressor that would rattle, apart from thrust bearings which would be a major problem. Other things that can rattle could be suction check and discharge check valves.
To check the thrust brgs have a vibtration analysis done.
If slide seals were worn you would be over injecting oil and slide would unload by itself, over injecting oil can create odd noises as well. Wrong rotation can also create weird noises, to check rotation, look at the input shaft in front of compressor and should be rotating clock wise.
magoo

[gfr04c]

rotation is perfect, there is a possability of over injecting oil, we did notice while we turned it on that there is too much oil in the system. which one are the thrust brearings, what should i be looking for.

[gfr04c]

here is pretty much the rest of the pictures, while taking apart the economizer input assembly we found that the filter was really dirty so we have cleaned and are now closing everything and are having problems with leaks because because seals here in venezuela are of really bad quality. i wonder if the there is something similar to http://www.pigal.it/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=56&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&lang=it&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64 which is a paste that makes a washer and its used for car engines which can withstand -60 do +250 celsius.
834783488349

[gfr04c]

and i would also like to thank everyone that is helping out. i was looking for an engineer in italy to come to venezuela but everyone said no because they said its hard to work here because its hard to make pieces in case something breaks and they would be coming for nothing, so i am doing this myself and the maintenance personnel having to deal with this and having some tough times understanding eachother as spanish is not my mother language

[Magoo]

Hi gfr04c.
can only suggest Loctite liquid gasget in a tube, its red and guey.

[RANGER1]

gfr04c,
I'm trying to work out where oil line going into "old economizer connection" comes from.

Is it from main oil header feeding compressor bearings, or the load/unload solonoids above capacity control cylinder?

Oil pressure on this machine should be 30psi(200kpa) above discharge pressure.

Is this the original machine & you are recommisioning it?

From your very first picture of compressor the oil lines from left to right

1/ shaft seal & main bearings suction end of machine
2/ probably oil pressure gauge/switch valve
3/ oil injection into rotors, to cool machine
4/ discharge end bearing,balance pistons/sleeves,thrust bearings
5/ valve & line feeding oil to solonoids controlling capacity control


The other thing which is important is, what pressures are suction, oil, discharge when you run it for several minutes as well as oil & discharge temps?
Discharge line shoul get warm to hot reasonably quickly.

[gfr04c]

that is all correct! it is not the original machine, we had the exact model recommisioned and shipped here. we expected to just plug in all the tubes and work but since all the tubes and the compressor that was in its place before was left without use for over 5 years we are having some problems.
gfr04c,
I'm trying to work out where oil line going into "old economizer connection" comes from.

Is it from main oil header feeding compressor bearings, or the load/unload solonoids above capacity control cylinder?

Oil pressure on this machine should be 30psi(200kpa) above discharge pressure.

Is this the original machine & you are recommisioning it?

From your very first picture of compressor the oil lines from left to right

1/ shaft seal & main bearings suction end of machine
2/ probably oil pressure gauge/switch valve
3/ oil injection into rotors, to cool machine
4/ discharge end bearing,balance pistons/sleeves,thrust bearings
5/ valve & line feeding oil to solonoids controlling capacity control


The other thing which is important is, what pressures are suction, oil, discharge when you run it for several minutes as well as oil & discharge temps?
Discharge line shoul get warm to hot reasonably quickly.

[josef]

I suspect an electrical valve control, coil or the entire valve.

[PaulZ]

Hi gfr04c
Is the noise constant or does it change or disappear when the compressor loads. If the noise is there when the compressor is between fully unloaded and about 50% it could be the slide valve rattling because of increased clearance.
If the noise is there all the time it could be the slide valve hitting the rotors due to a worn slide guide block.
Not being able to hear the noise it is difficult to pinpoint the problem.
From the photos it looks like the economizer line could be removed and the port blanked off as the line before the check valve has been cut and capped.
Paul

[RANGER1]

gfr04c,
I'm trying to work out where oil line going into "old economizer connection" comes from.

Is it from main oil header feeding compressor bearings, or the load/unload solonoids above capacity control cylinder?

Oil pressure on this machine should be 30psi(200kpa) above discharge pressure.

Is this the original machine & you are recommisioning it?

From your very first picture of compressor the oil lines from left to right

1/ shaft seal & main bearings suction end of machine
2/ probably oil pressure gauge/switch valve
3/ oil injection into rotors, to cool machine
4/ discharge end bearing,balance pistons/sleeves,thrust bearings
5/ valve & line feeding oil to solonoids controlling capacity control


The other thing which is important is, what pressures are suction, oil, discharge when you run it for several minutes as well as oil & discharge temps?
Discharge line shoul get warm to hot reasonably quickly.


Lots of questions & no answers, so difficult to help out!

[gfr04c]

here is the youtube link so us starting the compressor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgFfrDAVcxM


what do you think?

[josef]

Particular sounds, startup - liquid?
The oil temperature?

[Magoo]

Hi
sounds like the oil pump, if a David Brown pump they are noisy on a good day.

[Gerben]

sounds like a rotor that is not straight or axial ball bearings that are broken. Or a combination.

"If slide seals were worn you would be over injecting oil and slide would unload by itself"

When slide seals are worn down, compressor will run to maximum.