hydrocarbons follow on from NZ explosion

[al]

some of us may be interested in this, follow on from the explosion 3 years ago, some damning findings for the NZ fridge industry and maybe for us too?

It's linkedin so not sure if link will work, come back to me if it doesn't.

al


http://www.linkedin.com/news?viewArticle=&articleID=769180786&gid=1916927&type=member&item=70445650&articleURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehydrocarbons21%2Ecom%2Fcontent%2Farticles%2F118520110913%2Ephp&urlhash=HpUp&goback=%2Egna_1916927%2Egde_1916927_member_70445650

[paul_h]

Link works for me.

edit:
They aren't going to like it over there though ' fridges are bad, need better licensing and maybe send some of those dunces to uni too'
Hychill isn't going to like it either, though mentioned which tarnishes their reputation, they may jump on the 'fridgies are bad' bandwagon.

late edit: VVV
this is an excerpt from a hydrocarbon friendly publication I gather?
Everything is biased so would like a more neutral report I guess.

[al]

What do you reckon, fairly insightful findings for a coroners report?

I think the situation here is the same with regard to training and design.

Al

[chillerman2006]

Hi Al (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?41-al)

works for me too mate thanx

and attached is our limits UK/EU

Regards Chillerman (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?4978-chillerman2006)

[al]

Yep, those are the same limits here too, does that mean we'll never see industrial use of it?

al

[paul_h]

Training and licensing never changed anything down here, just let more non refrigeration people into the a/c game.
Same old same old, same basic stupid faults, but with more people allowed to make them.

[al]

Interestingly it doesn't seem to say what caused it, did anything emerge down your hemisphere Paul?

al

[paul_h]

Nope, no water cooler or pub talk here because I'm on my own and do a little bit of small commercial work.
I have very little info of what's said and done anywhere. That's why I come here! ;)

[chillerman2006]

Yep, those are the same limits here too, does that mean we'll never see industrial use of it?

al
Hi Al

I have worked on a number of packaged water chillers running on unstenched propane, those limits are just for indoors, they had condensors that leaked like sivs aswell typical leaky italian coils (Geoclima's) then the water was piped into store where cabinets were also propane (unstenched) but low charge with water cooled comdensors

First week I looked at them was with another engineer, he was smoking round the chiller whilst carrying out service... also most components were ignition source's, not good but they were only holding 3-7kg, enough for a nice boom though

Regards Chillerman (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?4978-chillerman2006)

[chillerman2006]

Interestingly it doesn't seem to say what caused it, did anything emerge down your hemisphere Paul?

al

Magoo & Mad Fridgie

will know, we shall have to pick their brains when next online

Regards Chillerman (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?4978-chillerman2006)

[al]

Hmm, good idea cm, might stay up a bit later for that!

al

[install monkey]

i dont know who dunnit but there was a widget involved!!! haha

Nope, no water cooler or pub talk here because I'm on my own and do a little bit of small commercial work.
I have very little info of what's said and done anywhere. That's why I come here! ;)

[Magoo]

System charge changed out for propane, more economical power consumption, fully auto plant, alarm/sensors installed, not set up for propane, no explosion proof anything, cracked pipe, leak. Fire alarm activated, not sure why. Fire service crashed the doors added oxygen, bingo explosion. One Fireman dead several should have but didnt. Total distruction of site, chillers etc., polystyrene panel, product butter and dairy product burnt for days. Large propane cylinder approximate to coldstore. Site in the middle of small village community. Plant owner and refrig., company on manslaughter charges, charged with neglect and pitance penalty. [ similar to a wet bus ticket slap ]. Government authourity say clients responsibilty to comly with regulations. Chhheeeeez give me strength. But the same authourity is all over like a rash plant operators with ammonia. Where is the logic

[chillerman2006]

Thanks Magoo

it dont make sense, yes we know ammonia can explode, yes it can cause hazardous cloud, but stiff penalties should be in place for what went wrong here

Fire service crashed doors ?? added oxygen ?? Does this mean they tried to vent and lowered saturation level back below 10% (explosive 2-10%)or was it they went in with full b/a gear and were releasing oxygen into mix and oxy ignited and in turn ignited propane....I only see it out doors but would like to fully understand what went wrong, so I may prevent a risk, if I see one....from the knowledge I was given outside is safer, just drains are risk area's....also inside the massive expansion has no where to go (especially no blast panels) but out doors it has area to expand...can this be confirmed, magoo, anyone ???

Regards Chillerman (http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/member.php?4978-chillerman2006)

[Magoo]

Hi CM.
I totally agree the whole thing does not make sense, result though was one guy dead / fried, and several others that will never be the same.
I have no idea at all what happened, a stock standard chiller complex fully automated, your regular system, literally hundreds around the country for dairy and fruit type storage, I mean literally hundreds of them. Probably 25000 tonne storage capacity each.
The only difference was this one had propane as the refrigerant, the plant owner/ developer, prior to had recently purchased several and converted to propane to save operating costs, guess what ? not know. I should name and shame the refrig company. Bunch of cowboys and half wits.
grumpy magoo

[AndyHX]

The fire crew had no idea that there was hydro carbon refrigerant on site . No signage , no leak detector system nothing. they enter site and see a cloud vapour pooling on the ground then this is some how ignited by them entering or another ignition source and all over. very sad .
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[chillerman2006]

Not Good Gents

the fact that there was no signage on its own I think warrants that they should have been jailed, the fire brigade are always at risk when entering a building but am sure they would not have had there been signs up...indeed very sad

R's chillerman
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