PDA

View Full Version : Naming and Shaming







Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Why cant we name and shame companies who don't pay. I've just been had for nearly 5000. I am in the suing process but the wa**ker has set up another company and he is ordering loads of materials in his old company's name. I have phoned all the suppliers i know and told them, but i think we should have a section for naming and shaming these people so other companies can steer clear. There is no legal issue for him not to pay he hasn't paid a plumber off the same job either.:mad:

chillerman2006
01-09-2011, 05:30 PM
Hi Kev

Sadly & Wrongly

You just can not mate,:( if you did & he found out he will have you in court for liable

& the tiniest bit of inaccuracy or he manages to twist the facts, he wins, you pay him

All I can suggest (dont know if it helps) is that you do a follow up disclosure to the courts

highlighting his new business & any evidence you can find that he is using old company to fund new

maybe wrong but I thought you are banned from trading for a period of time ( x years) when you

have already liquidated a company...check him out on www.snoop4directors.co.uk (http://www.snoop4directors.co.uk)

good luck with your claim,

R's chillerman

Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 05:47 PM
thanks chillerman, he is still trading both companies so they officially are both active. I believe ( could be wrong ) if one company goes under the other can still trade. dont know how true this is. It just pi**es me off cos he's a subby like me and he is turning over his own kind if you get what i mean, cos it isnt hard enough as it is to make a living. he's from the daventry area so pm me for more details.
Kev

chillerman2006
01-09-2011, 05:58 PM
Hi Kev

if one goes under....he can not trade the other

the only way round it...he would have to put the other company in someone else's name

& be listed as just an employee....but that comes under force accounting...keep on his trail mate

you should be able to shut him down at the minimum

R's chillerman

Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 06:07 PM
thanks for that mate, i'll keep you posted.
Kev

desA
01-09-2011, 06:24 PM
There are some websites around specifically set up for name-&-shame purposes (US, if I remember correctly). Not sure if they are active in the UK, though.

r.bartlett
01-09-2011, 08:03 PM
go to the company he subb'ed to and ask them if they can pay you direct..

Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 08:25 PM
Already tried that one mate, unfortunately he has already been paid. i'll just have to wait and see what happens and go through the process, i dont hold out much hope though, i've seen this pattern before. It just annoys me cos i work hard for f*ck all and the system doesnt help you like it should. but if i went and beat him up i'd get done.
Kev

chillerman2006
01-09-2011, 08:36 PM
Hi Kev

I can imagine the way you feel mate, keep your cool, on a dark & rainy night, karma often appears ;)

R's chillerman

install monkey
01-09-2011, 08:44 PM
go round with the bat-he'll soon pay when u smash up his pad and ankles-not condoning violence but always an option

monkey spanners
01-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Someone needs to set up a WikiLeaks only for bad debtors...

I have a few i'd add to the list...

Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 09:06 PM
oh the temptation, unfortunately i'm off to oz next year and they will revoke my visa if i get done for anything like that. if anyone knows any money extraction company's i might be in the market.
Kev

chillerman2006
01-09-2011, 09:16 PM
WikiLeaks ...

Do I hear a new group being opened....they are only visible to members

install monkey
01-09-2011, 09:21 PM
hire a 5 tonne bulldozer and plough his car,buisness,and even his misses!

Kev The Tool
01-09-2011, 10:54 PM
I like your style monkey. lol

mikeref
01-09-2011, 11:18 PM
Kev, this reminds me of a thread some time ago, about whether or not to give out your licence number. Same person holding your cash?

Kev The Tool
02-09-2011, 08:20 AM
it is indeed mike. He managed to get another subby to give his details over, i gave refcom his details but nothing done so far.
Kev

mikeref
02-09-2011, 09:37 AM
That just sucks Kev. I mean, he knows he's done wrong by you but doesn't give a s--t! I do have situations where people leave town or are in desperate need, but when i see them, they conveniently forget the time i saved their ass! Had one unhappy person today, called me to fix a coldroom,(help, going to loose stock, how soon can you get here? My answer was..NO! find someone else to work for nothing! I fixed her icemaker over a year ago but she never bothered to pay for it! ..All the excuses under the sun. I must have lost your invoice, Bla, Bla! Stiff Sh-t! What goes around, comes around!! Unfortunately, this does not help your situation and i hope you do recover at least some of your money.... eventually. Over here, you can black list non payers by supplying details to others in the industry. It is not law but it gives others the heads up so they can choose to take on the risk or not.. All the best.. mike.
it is indeed mike. He managed to get another subby to give his details over, i gave refcom his details but nothing done so far.
Kev

MikeHolm
02-09-2011, 11:33 AM
In Canada there is a small claims court, no lawyer needed which gives you a judgement. If they still don't resolve the issue, they may have a hard time getting a mortgage or loan as it goes on the credit history. Don't know if you have that kind of thing in the UK. I'm up for letting people know, quietly, that anyone working for him may get stiffed.

On another note, does he know you are leaving for OZ next year? If so he is probably thinking he can wait it out.

Kev The Tool
02-09-2011, 12:21 PM
no he doesn't know im off to oz. I am currently going through the small claims, however if he decides to close his company he walks away without penalty. just another reason to leave this country. this is not the first time i've been had, the last time i got judgement and i had appointed a court bailiff to remove goods and the day after he went for 660,000 he knew he was going and just milked it to the hilt. He now runs a successful construction company. it's in his daughters name. i am reluctant in my ongoing case to proceed with winding up because it will cost me over a grand and a very slim chance of me seeing my money.
Kev

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Over here, you can black list non payers by supplying details to others in the industry. .

Over here Mike that is illegal

there was a big thing about blacklisting in the construction industry recently, can not remember the exact details, but I do recall offices raided, computers taken & I think stiff penalties, I will have to do a search to find exact details...but I do know that it is frowned upon here by the powers that be, to attempt to stop someone working/earning regardless of their history, it is even illegal to give a bad reference to an employee !

R's chillerman

frank
02-09-2011, 08:58 PM
it is even illegal to give a bad reference to an employee !

R's chillerman

I think that quote is a little untrue. You can give or not give a reference when asked as an employer, but any reference you do give must be a true statement. You cannot 'bend' the statement to suit your own needs. :)

Maybe Abe can enlighten us further.

al
02-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Kev

You're not alone, it's happening wholesale here too.

An interesting idea that a few have tried here is using the money you'd spend on solicitors etc and hiring a mobile advertising hoarding with the customers details and the fact he hasn't paid you, just make sure you stick to facts, if he sues you for libel he will lose, it's been quite effective here!!

here's a guy going through the same as you: http://gregcfuzion.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/credit-control-warrior/

alec

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 09:40 PM
I think that quote is a little untrue. You can give or not give a reference when asked as an employer, but any reference you do give must be a true statement. You cannot 'bend' the statement to suit your own needs. :)

Maybe Abe can enlighten us further.

Hi Frank

you may be right mate, I know that a standard referencing form was rubber stamped as ok
which has a 1-5 scale poor-excellent, on it is a number of things including, appearance, performance, punctuality and a few others & yes it does need to be accurate as a previous employer applied to the previous to them for a reference, which came back poor, poor, poor, which they ignored as it included poor appearance which they new was incorrect as I had been interviewed 3 times after work, still rarely well groomed after a days work...I recently recieved a copy & took it to a solicitor who says I have good grounds to sue
the reference was supplied by the owner who has never seen or spoken to me, he has recently sold his company to the company he was a dealer for, both very well known & as I still have time left to make a claim, I may still releave him of some of his fat wallet ;)

R's chillerman

Ps: thanks for editing my post

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 09:52 PM
Argh ! Kev

just had a thought mate

If you supplied parts, equipment, gas ect....they belong to you Until you have recieved full payment...go back to site & remove them

If they refuse you access call the police...its your property & they can not prove otherwise

my brother & other builders I know use this approach, they have kangoed render off walls, stripped roofs bare when its raining...it normally gets them paid & additional payment to come & do the job again !!!

Just take your invoices with you mate

R's chillerman

monkey spanners
02-09-2011, 10:11 PM
If it got to the point of no return, think i'd tell the end customer the equipment has had a product recall due to fires and that we will be out next week to swap it, and just forget to put the new stuff in....

If it was a pub or such and just for a few hunderd notes, i'd give friends credit notes for the debt so they can go for a meal for free, see how they like not getting paid for stuff!

If anyone wants a curry in Wantage or a few beers in Burford...

Jon :)

MikeHolm
02-09-2011, 10:11 PM
Law is different here. Unless it is a leased piece of equipment, once it is installed in the building it is considered owned by the building owner, regardless of payment.

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 10:23 PM
If it got to the point of no return, think i'd tell the end customer the equipment has had a product recall due to fires and that we will be out next week to swap it, and just forget to put the new stuff in....
Jon :)

I like it, shrewd thinking Jon
;)

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Law is different here. Unless it is a leased piece of equipment, once it is installed in the building it is considered owned by the building owner, regardless of payment.

Evening Mike

How do you get round it over there then mate ?

Is there a way ?

R's chillerman

al
02-09-2011, 10:58 PM
Same here C, once installed it becomes part of building fabric, you need landlord or owners permission to remove, you could also be accused of leaving a dangerous installation behind you:)

Peter_1 had a brilliant idea on an old thread, putting in logic bombs which create worse and worse and problems if engineer doesn't attend!!

alec

chillerman2006
02-09-2011, 11:15 PM
Mike & Alec

thinking of what you gents are saying....If you check your invoices from your supplyer, does it say that until full payment is recieved then they are still the owner of the equipment

I am not saying knock your supplier but I presume you dont pay as you go (have credit account) and if so maybe your supplyer can then help by stating it is legally their property & you will not pay as you have not been paid & they want their equipment back...just an idea

Also would it stand if you add this clause to all your own invoice/quotes maybe its still owned by the building if signed by the company you contract off....but a sneaky move...t&c's on back of doc and make site owner sign the front giving you written permision to work on site...can just say its comany policy to validate you are allowed to carry out the work...

What do you think Gents, I know it sadly does not help 'Kev' but could this be the solution for the future....you could even explain to site owner after you have signature that he forgot to read the back :D
And then surely they would make sure your paid !

R's chillerman

mikeref
02-09-2011, 11:46 PM
Kev

You're not alone, it's happening wholesale here too.

An interesting idea that a few have tried here is using the money you'd spend on solicitors etc and hiring a mobile advertising hoarding with the customers details and the fact he hasn't paid you, just make sure you stick to facts, if he sues you for libel he will lose, it's been quite effective here!!

here's a guy going through the same as you: http://gregcfuzion.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/credit-control-warrior/

alec
That was good reading al. I've had them, up to here ( Notice where hand is). They think we forgive and forget, then have the nerve to ask for other work to be done. Not a happy camper..Mike.

al
03-09-2011, 12:14 AM
Mike

Yep, i've become so flipping wise in the last 2 years, it's unreal! But i've also become a bit more relaxed...;0

I have that printed on my service sheets, doesn't matter a w##k, you can't enter a premises under false pretences etc, i have helped a few fellow fridgies liberate what was theirs, one memorable one i wasn't involved in had 2 40foot trucks and some friendly muscle!!

If you get a court order allowing repossession then you're on the pigs back, you can make all reasonable efforts to recover and this is the best bet for Kev, don't bother with winding up, get judge to allow recovery of debt, then round up a few mates and a copper and off you go.

or start a blog like the one i linked to.

alec

AUScooler:-)
03-09-2011, 06:11 AM
He now runs a successful construction company. it's in his daughters name.
Kev

Unfortunately this scum bag is declaring bankrupt, he has most likely sold all his old company assets for cash and has a stash buried somewhere, good luck finding it, the courts cannot sieze assets if there are none left. He will betray himself as the poor hard done by guy, to the magistrate and most likely pull it off.

You say he is now running a company in his daughters name, man do I feel sorry for her. Anything goes wrong she is the proprietor and she will be legally responsible for anything and everything from unpaid wages to bank mortgages. He has more than likely told her a load of bull****, like oh all these guys, Kev and the plumber is after me, unfortunately for her she is more than likely a nice girl who cares for her father and has taken the bait. You claim the new daughters company is going well, how do you know this? what he is more than likely doing is getting his daughter to take out loans in her name. Telling her oh my back, I need a better work vehicle or the company would make so much more money if we had a better newer excavator. He would be living the high life like a king no stress and no responsabilities. The more loans she gets in her name the more power and control he has over her. Most scum bags do it to their girlfriends or wives, this is very unusual to do it to his own daughter. This guy must be the lowest form of scum there is.

What I would do first, is approach his daughter very respectfully and politely tell her you are very concerned for her, may bee even write her a letter. She should know what is going on. Perhaps she will shut the business down before it gets to a point of no return for her.

Kev The Tool
03-09-2011, 10:59 AM
Hi auscooler, this guy you are reffering to was another guy who done me 6 years ago, i was just using the example to highlight i'd been through the legal process before and it didn't work. sorry if it was a little misleading.
chillerman, my invoices state all items supplied remain in the ownership of my company until paid for in full. unfortunately i was labour only on all 4 jobs, however i did speak to a solicitor and that statement absolutley does not allow you to enter premises and remove "your" goods, once installed it becomes the building owners property. From my experience the system is sh*t as i'm sure loads of you guys know. I might just knock it on the head and get a job.
Kev

mikeref
03-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Kev, as long as you re-member this event, regardless of the outcome, i wish you well and hope you can recover sufficiently to look on life in a positive way. I hope your venture to " down under" will be worth the wait and they, (Aussies), will treat you well. If not, and you happen to grow roots in North Queensland, than contact me and i'll see what i can do for you.. Mike.

Kev The Tool
03-09-2011, 12:25 PM
thanks very much Mike, it is a shame we have to keep chalking these down to experience. thanks to all for your help, i will keep you posted as it unfolds.
Kev

chillerman2006
03-09-2011, 01:37 PM
I might just knock it on the head and get a job.
Kev

Sorry to here none of your responses can help solve your current issue, Hope it goes well in Oz for you mate

And your comment above seems to be a growing attitude because of to***rs like you are currently chasing....It's just so much easier to stick your hand out for your wage at the end of the month...am also looking to go full time employed...do me bit, go home & forget

R's chillerman

MikeHolm
03-09-2011, 04:38 PM
Evening Mike

How do you get round it over there then mate ?

Is there a way ?

R's chillerman

It really hard to get your money here and even if you get a judgement from the court, you still have to get the guy to pay and if he doesn't pay you have to go back to the court to get a court order to take the material or get payment. Pain in the ass. Otherwise you get Guido or the mafia or bikers to do your work for you.

paul_h
03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
Bikers would be the best bet.
I paid a debt collection agency $100 pm and the best they could get after hounding non paying people was about 50%, and to rub it in, the debt collectors would take a cut of that.
Now I just avoid restaurants and land lords etc unless it's COD. Most owner/occupiers are OK, it's just when a third party is involved; they want me there, but it's not their job to pay, is when I get some trouble.

Kev The Tool
03-09-2011, 05:32 PM
paulh, i am the same as you with regards to restaurants and shady people etc. this guy is one of us a fellow subby on the tools who needed a hand with a big job he was doing, thats what has pis*ed me off so much, big companys go under that is just something we have to deal with but when its someone who is the same boat as you its just f**kin wrong what ever way you look at it. The only good thing to come out of all this is this guy was supposed to start a nice little job down south but due to ill health ( nothing serious i hope ) he cant do it. The company rang me and asked if i wanted to do it. so every cloud and all that.
Kev

paul_h
03-09-2011, 06:43 PM
I hear you, and what happened to you is just wrong.
But to me it falls under 3rd parties like I said before, ie COD, and if they can't pay it, don't do the work.
Not saying you did anything wrong, just saying if you are moving down here, rules stay the same and you'll get burnt the same way, as I have. Restaurants, lands lords, tenants, 3rd parties (ie other companies, tradies/subbies etc, or anyone not owner/occupiers), watch out. :)

edit: I'm not meaning to be a wet blanket, everything starts of somewhere and I have done jobs under $200 for r/e agents, landlords etc. Most worked out well and I've done a lot of$2k-10k jobs for them later after I have found them good payers.
But also I've been sucked into some places with $4k owing and it taking forever...

Kev The Tool
03-09-2011, 07:29 PM
Hi Paul,
I will have to give you a ring when i come over, i will be landing in perth 30th march 2012. I will have to meet up and pick your brains.
Kev

install monkey
03-09-2011, 09:37 PM
kev-make sure u tick the right boxes on and dont take seeds over or dried food-ive seen em on border patrol on the tv!
Hi Paul,
I will have to give you a ring when i come over, i will be landing in perth 30th march 2012. I will have to meet up and pick your brains.
Kev

MikeHolm
03-09-2011, 11:31 PM
After being stiffed a few times, I only do the work if I get at least 35% up front. If not, I walk away. Also, I make sure there are 3 draws, the second covers it to about 80-85% and the system can easily be shut down in a way that will cost them if they don't pay the other 15-20%. I have lost a bit over the years but only a small percentage of the job.

I knew a bricklayer who, when doing chimneys, which was most of his work, would put a piece of clear glass in the flue. The owner could look if he wanted to and all looked normal but if he didn't get paid he just left the glass there and if he got paid he could break the glass.

mikeref
04-09-2011, 12:15 AM
Hi Paul,
I will have to give you a ring when i come over, i will be landing in perth 30th march 2012. I will have to meet up and pick your brains.
Kev
Oh, going to Perth are we? Still better than ending up at Christmas island. free detention centre there;). Never been to Perth but i,ve heard the roads are smooth as silk, better than the pothole infested excuse for goat tracks over here.

chillerman2006
04-09-2011, 12:07 PM
After being stiffed a few times, I only do the work if I get at least 35% up front. If not, I walk away. Also, I make sure there are 3 draws, the second covers it to about 80-85% and the system can easily be shut down in a way that will cost them if they don't pay the other 15-20%. I have lost a bit over the years but only a small percentage of the job.

I knew a bricklayer who, when doing chimneys, which was most of his work, would put a piece of clear glass in the flue. The owner could look if he wanted to and all looked normal but if he didn't get paid he just left the glass there and if he got paid he could break the glass.

Shrewd Mr Mike

the only way it seems to succeed is being shrewd & having a back up plan from the off... along with your staged payment system... your not green are you mate

R's chillerman

AUScooler:-)
04-09-2011, 02:46 PM
Hi auscooler, this guy you are reffering to was another guy who done me 6 years ago, i was just using the example to highlight i'd been through the legal process before and it didn't work. sorry if it was a little misleading.

Kev

My mistake I thought he was using his daughter to avoid paying you.

In my opinion he is conspiring two of his own companies, to work together to make a financial gain at you’re loss. In my opinion that would be illegal but im no expert in law. Perhaps he can get away with it. or perhaps he has put his new company in the firing line.

If he is still running his old company (A) and using the revenuse to purchase materials for the new company (B) then he is putting revenue from company (A) into company (B). This revenue should be paid to you. But he is not paying you because he is claiming company (A) is running at a loss close to bankrupt this is false. He is a slipery **** but his plan he is using to avoid paying you may backfire on him.

paul_h
04-09-2011, 06:47 PM
kev-make sure u tick the right boxes on and dont take seeds over or dried food-ive seen em on border patrol on the tv!
Seeds are fine, any type. Trick is to send them inside a birthday card or any cardboard!
I got ridiculously potent chilli seeds to grow from the USA that way, and many *other people* get all sorts of seeds that way too.
KTT best of luck, if I'm still around I'd be glad to meet you, I'm hoping to move to the mt barker region down south soon. Real estate in Perth too expensive, I'm hoping to bail out with 160K in my pocket pay cash for a house in cranbrook or something like that, build a massive barn size shed on a 1/4+ acre block. Build project cars for fun, grow chillies and sell seeds/sauce as a side business, brew and distill my own, and do the odd refrig-a/c job in Albany or local wineries a few days a week as a part time thing to fund my semi retired, rent and mortgage free existence.
This has been a long term plan of mine, the reason why I've learnt the ropes being self employed and putting up with bad payers after all. I could have earnt almost double being on wages, but then I'd be a city boy forever. The rat race is not for me, only project cars and making/ growing stuff makes me content.

MikeHolm
04-09-2011, 06:51 PM
Shrewd Mr Mike

the only way it seems to succeed is being shrewd & having a back up plan from the off... along with your staged payment system... your not green are you mate

R's chillerman

I've been designing, pricing, installing and collecting for every job for the last 30 years so I don't think I'm that green. None of it means there isn't more to learn in any way or that I won't get f**ked in the future but you live and learn, I guess.

MikeHolm
04-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Seeds are fine, any type. Trick is to send them inside a birthday card or any cardboard!
I got ridiculously potent chilli seeds to grow from the USA that way, and many *other people* get all sorts of seeds that way too.
KTT best of luck, if I'm still around I'd be glad to meet you, I'm hoping to move to the mt barker region down south soon. Real estate in Perth too expensive, I'm hoping to bail out with 160K in my pocket pay cash for a house in cranbrook or something like that, build a massive barn size shed on a 1/4+ acre block. Build project cars for fun, grow chillies and sell seeds/sauce as a side business, brew and distill my own, and do the odd refrig-a/c job in Albany or local wineries a few days a week as a part time thing to fund my semi retired, rent and mortgage free existence.
This has been a long term plan of mine, the reason why I've learnt the ropes being self employed and putting up with bad payers after all. I could have earnt almost double being on wages, but then I'd be a city boy forever. The rat race is not for me, only project cars and making/ growing stuff makes me content.

Paul, more power to ya. It has always been my desire to do the same (minus the chillis)

al
08-09-2011, 07:09 PM
Kev

One i found posted today, will let you know if it worked!!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6202/6110945675_6b45831958_b.jpg

alec

Kev The Tool
09-09-2011, 09:04 PM
nice one al, i might even try it myself.
kev

chillerman2006
09-09-2011, 11:53 PM
Or go one step further Kev

Leave it outside his house (on public road) just within his reach

But prior to that park a vehicle up the road a bit car charger/laptop/mini webcam

Let him rip it down in temper & have him on video bang to rights - criminal damage !

MikeHolm
10-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Kev

One i found posted today, will let you know if it worked!!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6202/6110945675_6b45831958_b.jpg

alec

Oh, that's rich, love it.

al
10-09-2011, 05:33 PM
it's worked for a few business's here Mike, one tip, always pay your sign writing company!

alec

MikeHolm
10-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Wouldn't work here unless you got a permit from the city to put the crane up and of course they will ask you why. Don't know if they would issue the permit. How long do they stay up for?

al
10-09-2011, 08:26 PM
Same here with the police, in fairness they take a very benign view, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone it stays for a while, normally a few days.

There was a local pub that retained a sign company across the road, never paid them and for the last 6 months they have a huge sign in their window telling everyone!!

I have often "misaddressed" overdue invoices to the business next door....

alec

paul_h
11-09-2011, 07:45 PM
Paul, more power to ya. It has always been my desire to do the same (minus the chillis)
Thanks.
I've got a mazda 1974 rx3 and 1975 rx4 rusting away under covers that has alway been me dream to finish (never have a garage or even a car port to with under. Wanting a 1986 MR2, a chrysler drifter panel van (with a 426ci of course) and a ford zc/zd fairlane (closest we have to a american car - though they built cars that size as a two door in the USA!)
Wouldn't mind a mazda rx2 coupe either, or a datsun 240z. Small block v8s, big block v8s, rotaries, in line 6cyl, or rear mount 4cyl, all cool to me.
and chillies are awesome too, like I said more and more people are interested in them as a possible side business selling seeds, pods and sauces. as it's a growing industry, and growing the plants, or mailing seeds/sauces is a possible income earner living in the remote country areas.

MikeHolm
12-09-2011, 12:53 AM
Wow, Mazda didn't import any of the rotaries here until the RX7 and as long as you can keep the seals proper, it was a good engine. Friend of mine had a MR2, beautiful handling and one of the the few good responses t the FIAT X19. GM tried with the Fiero which was a Chevy Chevette with a stupid body on it and the mid engine, guttless, horrible car...

Datsun 240 was nice, a cheap copy of the Ferrari 250GT....260 and 280 lost the appeal for me. I'm a 70's and 80's 911 turbo fan and a Lotus fan. Porsche lost all affordability after the late 80s and became too technical anyway.

Oz seems to like big V8s like the Americans.

gammon
14-09-2011, 01:09 PM
hire a 5 tonne bulldozer and plough his car,buisness,and even his misses!

????ing myself with laughter........ plough his misses, quality.

Kev The Tool
14-09-2011, 08:07 PM
Just to update you, the to55er has defended his undefendable case, i am waiting for the paperwork so i will let you know what he says. i think he is buying time to close down as i believe he is owed money. he is trying to get orders made out to his new company. i cannot believe the system doesnt stop blatant fraud like this. will keep you informed.
Kev

andychill
27-09-2011, 12:16 AM
Haven't been here in a while. Fascinated with this thread though.

I'm UK based.

The popular opinion that goods and equipment belong to the owner of the building, once fitted, is legally true. Ask any solicitor and he or she will confirm that.

What they wont tell you, though, is that the ars+ho+e trying to defraud you of your labour and materials will have to take expensive commercial proceedings against you in the event that you have steamed in and removed them due to non-payment.

Guys, the world has changed. I feel sorry for clients affected by the economic times we find ourselves in, I genuinely do. I always try to work with up-against-it clients in an effort to get paid and give them a bit of time if I can.

When it comes to non-paying ars+ho+es though, I'm a fan of fighting fire with fire.

If that means stripping out your kit, so be it. Sure, it means the debt you're owed is history, but you'll at least have the kit to re-sell to someone in the future, as well as the knowledge that the ars+ho+e hasn't done you over, which is equally important.

I'm always amazed that fellow engineers bow down to 'the law' and just accept that they can be legally shafted by ars+holes, with no apparent recourse.

'The law' is unfair for a reason; Wise up. Fight your corner. If a client is prepared to fu++ you over on payment when you've done a decent job and fulfilled your side of the contract, you are entitled to expect them - by Law - to reciprocate by providing a contractual remedy.

Kev The Tool
27-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Hi,
just a quick update, andychill - i was labour only so no kit installed was mine, i now have to defend myself against this to$$er cos he is suing me for loss of earnings and saying my workmanship was not up to scratch. there are people on this forum i have worked for who can vouch for my workmanship. I have spoken to the main contracter and they have said ther is no problem with what ive done and they will give me a letter to say this. he owes 3 national suppliers and 2 other companys. I have tried to call this pr!ck but unfortunatley he cant take my calls as he is in the bahamas on a month long holiday. I have decided to jack anyway as i cant be ar$ed with it all.
Kev

monkey spanners
27-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Well if he's away for a month, move into his house and change the locks like sqauters do, he'll have a job getting you out again.....
You could then get some loans in his name and address......

chillerman2006
27-09-2011, 09:06 PM
fsgvbhnzx dbnzgm,

MikeHolm
27-09-2011, 11:04 PM
But CM, you'd do just about anything.....;) so...what are you advising him to do?

andychill
27-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Thanks for the update, Kev.

The problem you seem to have is with a chancer who is firstly intent on not paying you, and is also going to push you legally, presumably in an effort to make you go away.

I'm not a lawyer, so don't act on anything I say, but your dispute with this guy is covered by contract law.

A commercial contract HAS to satisfied on both sides. Your ex-client is in breach of contract by not paying you.

When (if) he takes you to commercial court, he will have to have a very good case against you to justify HIS breach of the contract - by not paying you - that exists between you.

My guess is that he will play the old game of 'who's going to blink first' right up until the court hearing, then you'll get a phone call from his brief on the day of the hearing offering to settle before proceedings.

Advice that I will give you mate is; DONT BLINK FIRST. It's just a game. see it through and you should get paid in the end.

Kev The Tool
28-09-2011, 08:01 AM
HI,
I am convinced he is owed money the end of this month and he is going to go into voluntary liqiudation. just to give you some background. He was a sole trader for 12 years then he landed a 100,000 job in Nov 2010 the same month he became a limited company. ( coincidental, Me thinks not ). his last payment for the big job was July 2011 about the same time as he stopped paying people. He then incorparated a new company in August 2011. now im no sherlock holmes but i think i am a hiding to nothing trying to chase my 5000. What do you guys reckon ?
Kev

Install Monkey, i might just do that. Imagine the fun i could have when the loo roll runs out.

r.bartlett
28-09-2011, 09:38 AM
HI,
I am convinced he is owed money the end of this month and he is going to go into voluntary liqiudation. just to give you some background. He was a sole trader for 12 years then he landed a 100,000 job in Nov 2010 the same month he became a limited company. ( coincidental, Me thinks not ). his last payment for the big job was July 2011 about the same time as he stopped paying people. He then incorparated a new company in August 2011. now im no sherlock holmes but i think i am a hiding to nothing trying to chase my 5000. What do you guys reckon ?
Kev

Install Monkey, i might just do that. Imagine the fun i could have when the loo roll runs out.

I think after he won the 100k job he went Ltd to protect himself if it went tit's up. If so that seems reasonable. What happened after doesn't seem to tie in though...It is possible he did the numbers towards the end and realised he was going to lose money on the job so took advice to asset strip that company and leave those owed money hanging?

Scramjetman
23-12-2011, 11:11 PM
A lot of my peers here are complaining that the domestic market is going bad with a lot of people not paying or paying reduced amounts to the agreed price. It's probably a reflection on the tight economy.

We made the decision long ago, that any domestic jobs and light commercial jobs we do, are full payment in advance - cleared in the bank. We go out. Work out what needs to be done, provide a quote and start when it is paid.

Some might say that this limits your scope of business. maybe so. But we don't have any bad debts and our clientele still continues to grow and they are all high grade clients. All have got cash, and the stress of payment chasing and cashflow disappears.

It makes it a bit harder to deal with breakdowns, but there are ways and means of dealing with these too. Just takes a bit of imagination.

Congrats on the new baby Paul.

Kev The Tool
24-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Hi Guys,
just to update you, it turns out he has run the first company down to no assets and no money in the bank and not doing any work, all his work now goes through his second company but because he has no money in his first company account and is never likely to have its a no win situation as far as getting my money goes. meanwhile i am still waiting for the british justice system to award me judgement so i can do fu*k all. happy days!
Kev

Scramjetman
24-12-2011, 09:01 PM
Keep it cool, Kev. You're doing well. People who do stuff like this eventually self destruct. And sometimes it takes a while. This market we participate in is not such a large community and what goes around eventually comes around.

Not that this helps you much at all. You can use the opportunity, though to look at your systems for working and getting paid and see if you can tune it up so these risks are minimised or removed altogether. Sometimes these events force us out of a comfort zone and we start trying new things. Often we stumble onto something completely left field and things end up better than ever.

I hope this is the case for you. There's nothing like doing spectacularly well in business to answer negative people and serving it up to the parasites that tend to accumulate around when you are starting to make a little bit.