Recovery cylinder

[devlin maguire]

Can an empty cylinder, not a disposable, be converted to a recovery cylinder by changing the bottle valve or is it not worth the effort,
Dev

[install monkey]

yes but its frowned upon! get some pliers on the non return valve -does the bottle have a serial number on it? they charge u £50 for tampering!!

[r.bartlett]

yes but its frowned upon! get some pliers on the non return valve -does the bottle have a serial number on it? they charge u £50 for tampering!!

I have heard of some using a small cable tie to hold the NRV out....

[nike123]

Yes you could but I think it is forbidden by law to use that cylinder as recovery cylinder. If you try to bring it to disposal centre, they should report you.
I was told that NRV could be opened by pushing copper brazing rod in valve which is cut to length of 3mm longer than front of hose connector on bottle. That way, when you use charging hose, core depressor will push brazing rod and that will push NRV in open position. I never tried it myself.

[r.bartlett]

Yes you could but I think it is forbidden by law to use that cylinder as recovery cylinder. If you try to bring it to disposal centre, they should report you.
I was told that NRV could be opened by pushing copper brazing rod in valve which is cut to length of 3mm longer than front of hose connector on bottle. That way, when you use charging hose, core depressor will push brazing rod and that will push NRV in open position. I never tried it myself.

Don't bother the NRV works in reverse. IE it has to be pulled out not pushed in.. And what law do you refer too btw?

[nike123]

Example of regulations;

First, returnable cylinders must meet U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) specifications and are characterized by a combined liquid/vapor valve located at the top. A returnable cylinder must never be filled above 80 percent of the container’s volume.

If cylinders will be exposed to temperatures above 130 degrees, technicians should not fill them more than 60 percent. Hydrostatic pressure can be deadly in an overfilled refrigerant container. While over-pressure safety devices provide some level of safety, they do not eliminate risk. An opened valve can spew refrigerant, or the entire tank might rupture with extreme violence.

Second, technicians should weigh and inspect cylinders carefully before filling. They also should:
not use cylinders that are dented, rusted, gouged or damaged in any way
examine the valve assembly for leakage, damage or tampering
handle cylinders carefully
store refrigerant cylinders in a vertical position with their valves at the top
become familiar with all pieces of recovery equipment
apply all methods and instruction prescribed by the system’s manual every time they use the equipment.

Disposable cylinders, which are constructed of common steel, can oxidize and become weakened by rust. As a result, their wall and seams no longer can tolerate pressure or contain gases. Technicians should discard rusted containers because they can never be used for recovery or refilling. To prevent corrosion, technicians should store containers in dry locations.

Cylinders with residual refrigerant should not be allowed to sit at a job site because saturated vapor pressure will form if even the smallest amount of liquid is present. Before discarding a container, technicians should recover any remaining refrigerant per EPA recovery efficiencies.

Third, technicians should collect used refrigerant in DOT-approved, refillable cylinders or drums, as appropriate, painted gray with the top shoulder portion painted yellow. They need to label the cylinder or container with a DOT four-by-four green, diamond-shaped, nonflammable gas label.

Finally, technicians must fill drums to allow vapor space equal to at least 10 percent of the drum height between the top of the liquid and the drum top. Refillable cylinders must be retested and recertified every five years, and the test date must be stamped on the cylinder shoulder. Retesting by visual inspection alone is not permitted.

http://www.facilitiesnet.com/hvac/article/Refrigerant-Safety-101--4833

[r.bartlett]

Example of regulations;


http://www.facilitiesnet.com/hvac/article/Refrigerant-Safety-101--4833


That's an American law which isn't relevent in the EU??

[nike123]

From my long term memory, am sure that in EU is regulated similar, but I am currently unable and unwilling to search for it.

[devlin maguire]

Thanks for the input, more curiosity than intent or need, I have never taken the valve of a bottle to have a look, but I thought you could change them for a two way bottle valve,
Dev

[nike123]

They cannot be unscrewed from bottle.

[martinw58]

i think that if you change the valve you will have to pressure test and certificate the bottle the same as the manufactures have to as you will be legally responsible

[Quality]

Its a cylinder with a valve that can be used for containing refrigerant, as long as its not over filled there is no reason you cannot use it for recovery.
The only real concern is who owns the cylinder, test date, type of refrigerant thats where the legal thing comes to mind. If you have bought and paid for the cylinder then all is good

[devlin maguire]

Looks like a case of having a go at removing the existing bottle valve for a look, it's a bottle I purchased outright about 7 years ago from a company that were selling R411b cant remember the name, one of the all singing and dancing do anything refrigerants, so no ownership issues.
Dev

[still learning]

why not just get the correct cylinder from Agas or hrp or boc?

[nike123]

Because this one is free of charge!