how much is your hourly pay rate in your country ?

[gravy258]

In Melbourne, Australia $28-$33 for a good transport fridgy. (18 - 22UKP)(30 - 35 USD)
(using XE currency converter)

just out of interest

[charlie patt]

i no transport guys that get paid that as a employee if we charged 18 to 24gbp p ph in uk instead of working 18 hour days we could do 24 instead most transport are at least 36 gbp that i no off

[gravy258]

36 quid charge out rate is that Charlie ?

This is for what they pay you as an employee before deductions.
Time and a half after 38 hours, double time after 12 midday Saturday. Four hour minimum pay for a call out. four weeks annual leave and 9% supperannuation guarantee.

Companies here charge out between $75 - $110 per hour(UKP50 - 73)
(my computer has no pound sign)

[SeanB]

Wow, I do need to go to Oz.................

[charlie patt]

employee average on non francised dealer 13 to 14 gbp booked out at 34 to 38gbp

[install monkey]

is that why frank is relocating?

[tran scot]

well we would get a better hourly rate if there was less one man companies about! That is what has stopped wages rising lately! Or does anybody see something different?

[mad fridgie]

It not what you earn, it what you can get for an hours work or how many hours you have to work to get something (after tax), at moment the Aussy dollar is really strong so the wages do look great.
I have a UK friend who was moving to Aus for all the right reasons, not going now, because his pounds converted wont even a buy a dog box to live in. A few years ago it would have got him a mansion!

[gravy258]

and employers supply tea and coffee.

[charlie patt]

well we would get a better hourly rate if there was less one man companies about! That is what has stopped wages rising lately! Or does anybody see something different?

if i could swear on this site i would the above statement is a load of rubbish i have ever heard your hourly rate is the same because possible the economic downturn/ riseing costs and company going bust / higher fuel rates/less discounts and slow payers? i suspect some employees believe that most company owners just sit back and sea the money role in, i would suggest you ask the boss to be in his shoes for a week? take the calls/ sort out jobs/ order parts/ accountants, tax man etc etc etc when a staff member is going home the owner is still sorting out the calls as they useually dont organise them selves/ and if you dont like the one man bands at least they are haveing a go, doing there days work takeing calls then the paperwork? i done it for 18 months before i employed a member of staff and i loved it, transport/ commercial what ever paid the bills how do you thing the big boys started? at the end of the day a good turnover is nothing without good profit and the reason the one man bands can role is they give the better service without being ripped of, i saw a bill from a main branded transport ref company when they used to do the work for a new customers of hours for a price for a tm 16 of 485 pounds this is just the comp not fitted to much to dear

[install monkey]

and employers supply tea and coffee.

thats it im on the next flight to oz with me gauges and fin comb!!

[cadwaladr]

well we would get a better hourly rate if there was less one man companies about! That is what has stopped wages rising lately! Or does anybody see something different?not true take the blinkers off,smell the coffee.

[mercury_blues]

Here in Southern Ontario, working for a fair sized fleet, we make $22.50 CAN. Not as good as the boys in OZ but at least we don't have to worry about kangaroos, lol.

[r.bartlett]

not true take the blinkers off,smell the coffee.


Rather than just being flippant and disrepectful, simply post your counter reasons for his comments then we can gauge the argument.

[cadwaladr]

Rather than just being flippant and disrepectful, simply post your counter reasons for his comments then we can gauge the argument.o sorry if it appeared as you say,but his statement is wrong the reasons wages are low is this country is in recession and blame the goverments both past and present,not one group of individuals.by the way why do you think wages are low that is if they are?.

[r.bartlett]

o sorry if it appeared as you say,but his statement is wrong the reasons wages are low is this country is in recession and blame the governments both past and present,not one group of individuals.by the way why do you think wages are low that is if they are?.

Our wages are low because they have always been traditionally low. Or rather our ability to charge is low compared to other trades. Compare us to the other various trades and we don't come out too well. It has nothing to do with the recession, never has. This recession is driving overall quotes down but that must be seen against the previous 5 years where jobs quotes rose quite considerably. Although std hourly rate stayed roughly the same.

So what do the OMB's compete on. What is their USP so to speak.
Well the only thing they have is price. I have not met one OMB start up who didn't start out by under cutting the local competition.We did, everyone does. This keeps everyone's prices low. Now it could be argued that as a OMB operating from home outgoings are low and hence they can pass that saving onto customers, But the effect of that is felt industry wide.

Few are brave enough to pitch higher than the average at best

As a rag tag industry dragged down by the Japanese de-skilling the image by advertising to plumbers sparkies and every other trade we all feel that effect. The big supermarkets are also doing their bit to drive down prices and remove any remnants of pride at the fridge end of the game.
Then the big opportunity to re skill and restore some pride via the 2079 has been torpedoed by various vested interests such as rogue trainers, poorly implemented regulations,wholesalers unwilling to regulate their side properly, a general lack of awareness to the end user and even those within the industry who are too busy to see past their next job..

There are many other reasons why the trade is poorly rewarded but this recession isn't one of them Ironically the Government is trying to assist us by enforcing regulations, yet some here fail to see it for what it is. The regulations should be welcomed and took forward by us all but I can almost guarantee the vast majority of those non complaint as of July 4th would have been SME's primarily OMB's

(some 2500 companies were deregistered by REFCOM on that day apparently)

[Grizzly]

Our wages are low because they have always been traditionally low. Or rather our ability to charge is low compared to other trades. Compare us to the other various trades and we don't come out too well. It has nothing to do with the recession, never has. This recession is driving overall quotes down but that must be seen against the previous 5 years where jobs quotes rose quite considerably. Although std hourly rate stayed roughly the same.

So what do the OMB's compete on. What is their USP so to speak.
Well the only thing they have is price. I have not met one OMB start up who didn't start out by under cutting the local competition.We did, everyone does. This keeps everyone's prices low. Now it could be argued that as a OMB operating from home outgoings are low and hence they can pass that saving onto customers, But the effect of that is felt industry wide.

Few are brave enough to pitch higher than the average at best

As a rag tag industry dragged down by the Japanese de-skilling the image by advertising to plumbers sparkies and every other trade we all feel that effect. The big supermarkets are also doing their bit to drive down prices and remove any remnants of pride at the fridge end of the game.
Then the big opportunity to re skill and restore some pride via the 2079 has been torpedoed by various vested interests such as rogue trainers, poorly implemented regulations,wholesalers unwilling to regulate their side properly, a general lack of awareness to the end user and even those within the industry who are too busy to see past their next job..

There are many other reasons why the trade is poorly rewarded but this recession isn't one of them Ironically the Government is trying to assist us by enforcing regulations, yet some here fail to see it for what it is. The regulations should be welcomed and took forward by us all but I can almost guarantee the vast majority of those non complaint as of July 4th would have been SME's primarily OMB's

(some 2500 companies were deregistered by REFCOM on that day apparently)


A good rounded argument!
For those of us in the U.K.
Basically the only way to get a decent pay rise at the moment is to change jobs ( if you are PAYE).
For the self employed it's more difficult and anyone changing jobs at the moment has to be either Mad or very confident off their prospects.
Consolidation is the name of the game at the moment.
As to wether I am happy with my lot, it depends upon what day you ask me!
I cannot post my hourly rate as my company pay each of us individually and that amount is dependant upon our own negotiating skills.
Plus open discussion is deemed innapropriate and unacceptable behaviour, I wonder why?
Just my opinion of course!
Grizzly

[gravy258]

A good rounded argument!
For those of us in the U.K.
Basically the only way to get a decent pay rise at the moment is to change jobs ( if you are PAYE).
For the self employed it's more difficult and anyone changing jobs at the moment has to be either Mad or very confident off their prospects.
Consolidation is the name of the game at the moment.
As to wether I am happy with my lot, it depends upon what day you ask me!
I cannot post my hourly rate as my company pay each of us individually and that amount is dependant upon our own negotiating skills.
Plus open discussion is deemed innapropriate and unacceptable behaviour, I wonder why?
Just my opinion of course!
Grizzly
the whole idea is that nobody knows who you are, so you can post your individual rate.
How does transport compare to other Refrigeration trades in your country? Here transport is the lower end of the scale, as you tend to get your hands dirty.

[Quality]

Thier are a lot of folk on here who know / are friends with Grizzly myself included

Aint that right Steve wink wink

[Grizzly]

Careful.Sailor :D
Yes I have made friends whilst using this forum yourself included Quality.
Gravy,you raise a good point, however my reason for not quoting actual pay rated.
Seems to be the standard way of controlling wages within our industry in the U.K.
Where a general rate range is applied when positions are advertised.

Normally the only way you gauge what is paid is reading adverts for positions.
Who you work for has a big influence.

Much the same as ex-pats in OZ don't get paid as much as the Local guys. But to them the rate they are getting is good compared to what they had before.

In answer to the original question for my discipline which is Industrial and chiller mainly.
The rate seems to range from £25,000 to £30 ish.
Some guys are on more with our Marine lads being hit for super-tax which I think is £35,000 plus.

Most companies offer salaried basic with Overtime paid monthly coupled with this is sometimes a choice of vehicle.
Even with these the grade band that denotes what vehicle you can choose from is wide enough for you not to be able to deduce a guys pay scale.
Historically within the UK the choice of vehicle would influence the amount of tax you paid.
The difference between van,estate car or saloon has almost disappeared now.

But the vehicle package can influence your choice of employer.
I hope this explains a bit more.

Sorry for not being more specific but as Quality implies many people use the forum including work colleagues and managers / employers.
So unless yours is a fair and open pay scale known by all, being general is the best you are going to get. From the UK anyway!

Grizzly

[james10]

I cannot post my hourly rate as my company pay each of us individually and that amount is dependant upon our own negotiating skills.

Grizzly

Sounds familiar!!!

[chilliwilly]

(some 2500 companies were deregistered by REFCOM on that day apparently)[/QUOTE]

Poor old Refcom ha ha.

[chilliwilly]

I'm actually surprised there were that many fridge and aircon companies in the UK that had bothered to register with them. I know what you mean though about everything else you've said. I've always found the fridge and aircon game to be on a par with sparkies, plumbers and other building services trades.

Sparkies got a 25% pay rise about 10 years ago, because the rises they had been getting through the nineties were p!sspotticle, causing people to retrain or get a less skilled job for slightly less money. So the union pushed for a decent pay rise to attract new blood and to maintain the numbers of bonafide trades folks to stay in the trade. But then "part P" came along, and blocked the toilet.

It really amazes that a country can sign the Montreal and Kyoto protocol, and then expects its citizens to swallow it and to pick up the expensive cost of compliance with it, with no assistance whatsoever. Except including it in your tax return if you’re self employed, if you’re employed and you have had to cough up yourself then it gets even worse. Then in turn lets a third party industry with minimum business risk and liability, set up a governing body that in turn practically make it law for a refrigeration business to join.

Whilst in the meantime there are a number of rogue customers over here who aren't bothered about any such politics, but only want the job doing as cheap as possible. That in turn can hire immigrant labour or other rogue traders who can still purchase aerosols of fridge gas and other quantities, and who still work to the old school ways, and seriously undercut companies that are complying, or trying to comply with the regulations. How on earth can a bonafide contractor compete with that?

That kind of cost due to regs and competition on its own can also restrict decent money or pay rises, especially for companies trying to win new customers. As I have said in some of my other posts I am an OD and GW sceptic, and until there is 100% proof it’s due to CFCs and the like. I will only see the fridge gas regs and the like as a revenue generator for government bodies and chemical companies. In turn increasing competition and driving up the cost of running a small business. This is only the tip of the iceberg, and I am expecting it to get worse as Refcom and the like start wanting a pay rise amongst other things, and start getting greedy by increasing their business with forced sales of sundries and the like.

Over the past few years since I've drifted back into aircon and fridge, I've attended a couple of interviews and they were offering around £27000.00-£30000.00 PA, plus overtime and bonus. And they had contracts with large retailers and local authorities, the other ones were smaller firms with less than 10 people working there carrying out aircon and heat pump work. I know of some engineers only earning £11.00 per hour working with aircon, with no premium time for overtime. And their gaffers feel like they're paying them too much. They sometimes work for me on weekends or on evenings as and when I need them, if they want to. When I first started in the job back in 82, the weekly wage for an engineer was about £110.00 pw, similar to sparkies and plumbers. The equipment required to carry out the work back then was pretty much the same as it is now, with the exception of a recovery machine and a scale. Which they had for reclaiming etha from some of the older plant. It’s the training and the association with the regs that are driving a wedge between an honest profit and a dishonest one.

[Grizzly]

Good post chillwilly.
One HUGE difference in the U.K.
No trade union representation!
I have seen the damage overzealous Unions can cause. ( try being a self employed contractor at the Metro plant in the late 70's. (Red robbo days)
However virtually all the terms and conditions offered the working man (Management and staff inclusive)
Have been based upon conditions fought for and won by unions.
Sadly all in our industry are scrabbling for what we can get and I think that makes it harder for all.

Sorry to digress Gravy, only we may of just hit a nerve here?
Grizzly

[mad fridgie]

When I started in the UK fridgies, where paid slightly more, certainly earned more on regular basis, with standby, overtime and good perks. I got the impression we were a very trusted and respected trade. It would seem that this no longer the case. Just about any semiskilled person can undertake 80% of the work carried out by just about any trade. I think that this approach had hit the refrigeration trade heavily. I say this because the need for rapid response to breakdowns is now a contractual issue. So it is better to have alarge number of semi skilled driving about, than a few highly skilled, to meet contractual call out times. The semi skilled earn less, which then drives down the average wage and respect. This then becomes the norm, The semi skilled have the "F" gas, which seem to be the only regulation need to be a refrigeration engineer.
In NZ the suppliers of AC equipment pay for the contractors labour for warranty work, historically this was about 66% of normal contractor charge rate. This was not really an issue when the contractor sold and installed the AC equipment (this where the profit was made) and when warranty work was well below 1% over 5 years, you are talking about very little. However thing have changed, the genuine skilled contractor, is now loosing sales and installs to sparkies plumbers, builders and even the end user. Warranties have increased, the AC suppliers calls on the the decent contractor to make repairs, at the poor hourly rate, the rate becomes known and now is expected to be normal.

[monkey spanners]

About eight years ago i was on £12.38 an hour, but now i'd be lucky to get near that self employed.

I would say that i'm too cheap for the work that i do, but there are others even cheaper...

Last cold room i quoted for i think i lost because i said the lights should be run off a seperate supply to the refrigeration, and why not get the sparky to put them in when he runs out our supply. No doubt some chancer will just dab a bulkhead light by the door and offer a tail light warranty.
It wouldn't be so bad but this customer already has two systems that have gone through four compressors since install due to poor quality work and components missing to keep the price down from their previous company, one who wouldn't come back to sort out their problems!

In an ideal world i would be able to pick the type of customer that would pay a decent rate and have stuff done propperly, but its not an ideal world is it? You have to do what you can to put food on the table, even if it is tesco value :D

I did have a customer tell me recently i was too cheap and he was concerned that i might go bust or pack up and do something else so they ain't all turds.

Jon :)

[mikeref]

Too cheap Jon. Think of the time spent on Quoting and nil result. Thats why i've steered clear of install jobs, it's too competitive and the odds are against you. I would have thought, with your talent, that you could do better on breakdown repairs as your main focus. I work alone in a large service area with little opposition, as this area cannot support larger refrigeration companies and their overheads. Cannot say that work hours/ week are great as some days are diamonds and some days are stone, but converting to your hourly rate, i'm on 46 GBP. before tax..Mike.

[gravy258]

OK, they use the secret approach to control wages in most places. I used to work for a dealer and every bod was on a different rate, dependant on if your any good or was any good and would do on call and be there b1tch.
None of the guys wanted to reveal there rate.
So if no one knows what the next man is getting, how can you argue for a better payrise?
I only wanted to know to see where the grass is greener.
I'm from the UK, been here eleven years, i'm a diesel mechanic by trade but got into transport refrigeration about seven years ago as there diesel man, progressing to learn all aspects. So the expat getting less is nonsense.
So it turns out with the exchange rate I could sell my crappy house here, and live like i've made it back in Brum !! but alas not on my current pay scale, so i won't be making the return.

[chilliwilly]

Too cheap Jon. Think of the time spent on Quoting and nil result. Thats why i've steered clear of install jobs, it's too competitive and the odds are against you. I would have thought, with your talent, that you could do better on breakdown repairs as your main focus. I work alone in a large service area with little opposition, as this area cannot support larger refrigeration companies and their overheads. Cannot say that work hours/ week are great as some days are diamonds and some days are stone, but converting to your hourly rate, i'm on 46 GBP. before tax..Mike.

That's a good rate Mike, I think you would struggle to get that kind of money over here as a one man band. But like you say its all on the exchange rate, but you really shouldn't go by that. You should go by the cost of living in OZ. And like you say it's feast and fammine whether your busy or not. Fortunately for me I only do this kind of work part time for a small exclusive customer base, and rely on my day job for regular wages, which are about £14.50 ph.

I recently applied to emmigrate to Canada, but I was knocked back due to some stupid opinion by an immigration officer that reviewed my application as having insufficient evidence that I was an electrician???, but that's another story. But I know that the rates of pay over there are only slightly higher than the UK for electricians and fridgies, and they're short of work like everywhere else. And the cost of living is much higher in comparison, but the taxation is much fairer from a wages point of view. Until of course you start spending in the shops, then tax is added to your bottom line making it overall a higher cost of living. So the difference is soon swallowed up with charges like that. At least over here the tax is included and it's already on the label, which takes the blow out of it a bit. Until of course you buy wholesale where there's a 20% VAT added to your bootom line.

My mate is a mechanic out there and works for a dealership, and he's on $35.00 CA per hour, which is very good money for a mechanic. I think that's around £22.00 per hour, that's probably twice as much as he'd get over here as a mechanic. I think he is thinking of becoming self employed, but I'm trying to put him off by asking him if he could live without the life style that he has become accustomed to for a few years. I hope he see's sense and stays where he is.

[mikeref]

Hi there Chilli. What one can charge really comes down to the cost of living and different countries economies. I recently repaired a domestic for one customer who had returned from holidays in another country, and he showed me an account for one weeks accomodation, which included 3 meals/day, bar tab etc that converts to 264 GBP.:eek:, And had the photos to prove it. Over here, that amount would hardly cover one days costs of similar treatment!!.. Want to buy a house here now? Not now you don't. Sparkie friend of mine just signed the dotted line for a three bedroom on one acre for AUD 485,000, or 324,400 GBP. How can he afford this? Left his regular job and now works in the coal mines in Queenslands outback. My point is, the rate i charge/ hour cannot be seen in different locations around the world as being high or low, so taking this into account, i should retract my comment to "monkey Spanners" on his charge rate being too low as over there, that may be all your economy can afford at this time. Regards to all, Mike.

[tony2009]

Just look at our interest rates here compared to over there; ours are much higher, let alone the cost of purchasing a house. Most houses in my area are around the AUD$500,000 mark, though where I live is rural and acreage, most houses in metro areas are not much different.
Anyone thinking about coming here, the exchange is a little lower for you than it had been in the past, but it's still pretty good, so hopefully the exchange rate would help offset the difference in house pricing.

[mikeref]

Have to wonder, How can people afford a place to live here now, especially the younger people. When i moved here, over 20 years ago, i bought this house on 1/4 acre for 125,000. Now, it has to be insured for close to 400,000:eek:. Aren't we still in a recession? Customers agree to pay my rate/hour as it is currently the same as that of motor mechanics, electricians, chippies and plumbers. Whether anyone believes it or not, watch what will happen now as "Julia" has ripped into us again on carbon, and prices will go up again.. Mike.

[Magoo]

Hi Mikeref.
I totally agree, the system is designed to keep everyone on a even playing field, balanced by taxes and localized costs of living. Irrespective of were you live.
I do worry with current generation trying to get a home together and costs envolved. We survived is the only promise I can suggest. Pay rates are entirely relevent to cost of living.
I see that your PM has ratified the carbon tax thingo., holly hell were will it all end. The numb nuts over here will follow along as a given.

[tony2009]

Magoo; how are things in Auckland?? I was looking at an investment property in Auckland about 6months ago but some of the house prices appear to have gone through the roof compared to when I lived there some years ago. Probably a bit like Brizzy I guess; and you really have to wonder why. I totally agree with what Mikeref is saying; my first house in Sydney was around AUD$100,000, hate to think what they'd be asking for it now.