killing our scrolls? help

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

i really need help with a 4 year old modular chiller set up that has killed 4 out of 8 scroll compressors. r-22 . air cooled condenser and chiller not from same company. high side runs 350 to 380 psi while low side is mid to low 50's psi. 375psi vapor into condenser 345psi leaving condenser going into an 80lb receiver . any ideas.

[install monkey]

how long is the delay from stopping to starting,should be at least 3mins to allow for pressures to equalise.-is it a mercury climatic? by any chance?

[Brian_UK]

High side pressures seem overly high, what is the ambient temperature?

What is the state of the condenser?

[mad fridgie]

Simply your head pressure is to high, and is a good chance is outside the operating range of the compressor. I bet the discharge line is glowing red (joke) but is very hot.
Why is it so high, what is your air "on" temp to the cond, what are cooling.
Making a guess, i would say that your system has air in it.

[simon@parker]

as the other guys have said yr head way to high for a scroll to handle on 22 they will run but fail very quick check for non condensables and get yr failed units replaced so it can handle the load check the rotation of the comps if they going wrong way they sound like a bag of spanners and dont work very well then overheat best way to see if you had phase rotation see if yr condenser fans running the correct way an check yr oil levels that buggers them up as well good luck with that one :)

[Grizzly]

Other faults that may give the symptoms you have.
Overcharged?
Chocked liquid Strainer?
Moisture in the system?
Given the issues you mention.
I would reclaim the refrigerant and recharge with fresh or at least . Do a pressure temp comparison to confirm you have R22 in the system and that it is not contaminated.
Grizzly

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

it does have 3min delay timer.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

rotation is correct. we have made shure there is no non-condensables, by starting over on one of them ,pulling a good long vaccume on system all over (each side of check valves) .not shure about chocked liquid strainer? we have put in new filter dryer just before expantion valve.outside temp under 100f

[joe-ice]

another thing to check if system cycling down ok ,ht scrolls throw out alot(all) of oil as they approach vacuum

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

yes we have had that problem with short on and off times when cold out and oil leaving compressor. but we are not going to run them under 40 degrees anymore and we also have better control of condenser fans. we also have a very low delta-t at about 4 degrees f. im told it needs to be around 10 . so does that mean refridgeration valve is staying almost closed making low pressure? rember also i have 30# pressure drop on high side through condenser.

[chemi-cool]

Do they pump down when they stop? If yes, do not let them go below 20psi.

The pressure should not change through the condenser. Sounds like it is partially clogged.

Are there NRV's on each discharge?

Check expansion device, high head pressure can indicate problems with it at times.

[monkey spanners]

Is the high head pressure a new problem or has it always been there?

[Gary]

At 350-380psi, your saturated condensing temp (SCT) is 144-150F. SCT should be no more than 30-35F above ambient temp. In other words, if the ambient temp is 100F, the SCT should be no more than 130-135F, which translates to 296-315psi. 350-380psi is way too high.

If it isn't a condenser airflow problem, then the system is very probably overcharged.

[Gary]

Start with air flow and water flow. What is the temperature of the air entering the condenser and the air leaving the condenser? What is the temperature of the water entering the evaporator and the water leaving the evaporator?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

the compressors do not pump down. there is a 24volt solinoid that opens and closes directly with compressor contactor. they are 25 ton scrolls. this modular chiller set up has never been right. i remember the start up guys from each company (one with the chiller and the other with the condenser) fighting during start up. one was saying he did not like the pressures at all ,he said it looks like you have non condensables.
since then we have had two different factory reps and several different chiller guys here and try to get set up right. obviously from most of the response iv been getting 350-380 psi is too much for a scroll. i agree. i will get more temp readings across condenser. entering water is 46deg f and leaving is 42degf thanks for the help i really hope we can get to the bottom of this

[mad fridgie]

Measure the temp of the refrigerant leaving the cond and the temp leaving the reciever.
Measure the liquid pressure leaving the reciever.
One has to presume that the cond has been sized correctlly
Are you cond fans 3 phase, check rotation of each fan, also check that all fans have the same blade and are fitted correctlly.
If your head pressure is so high, I can not see how you would know if your cond fans set up is OK (what pressures are these set to?), unless this is set up with the wrong pressures.

[Gary]

entering water is 46deg f and leaving is 42degf

On the evaporator, the water should enter the bottom and exit the top. The refrigerant should enter the top and exit the bottom.

At 4F, the delta-T is low. It should be about 10F. Either the evap outlet superheat is too high or there is too much water flow.

I'm thinking there is a combination of several problems... and we need to track them down one at a time.

[mad fridgie]

On the evaporator, the water should enter the bottom and exit the top. The refrigerant should enter the top and exit the bottom.

At 4F, the delta-T is low. It should be about 10F. Either the evap outlet superheat is too high or there is too much water flow.

I'm thinking there is a combination of several problems... and we need to track them down one at a time.
Nett refrigeration effect will be low due to high discharge pressures

[Gary]

Given the low side pressure, excessive water flow is unlikely. Once the high side pressure is reduced (probable overcharge), the low side pressure is going to drop even further. This all adds up to high evap outlet superheat, which points to liquid restriction. Given the fact that it was like this new, I would suspect undersized TXV orifice and/or undersized liquid line, drier, etc... but we need more information to confirm all of this.

[mad fridgie]

Reading between the lines, the OP said that there had been a few engineers on site and from different companies, It would suprise me that at least one of the engineers would have picked up the basic problem. Could it be that the cond has just been incorrectly sized, and someone/company is just trying to protect their arse

[Gary]

Reading between the lines, the OP said that there had been a few engineers on site and from different companies, It would suprise me that at least one of the engineers would have picked up the basic problem. Could it be that the cond has just been incorrectly sized, and someone/company is just trying to protect their arse

If the condenser were undersized, the suction pressure would be high. If the condenser were oversized, the head pressure would be low. But then... who knows what they might have done to cover their tracks?

[mad fridgie]

If the cond was undersized and 100% cond was not achieved (vapour and liquid in the liquid line), then you would have lower suction, due to the a reduced mass flow through the expansion device, you normally see high superheat, but on rare occassions you do not because of the increased pressure drop through the evap, where little heat transfer occurs at the beginning of the evap.

[nike123]

What is compressor make and model?
What is chiller make and model?
What is condenser make and model?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

the part i just read about vapor and liquid in the liquid line is what is hapening. the sight glass just before the expantion valve is full of bubbles. i mean FULL of bubbles! i heard that in some systems a little bit of bubbles is ok but im shure not like we have. story goes like this when start up was done they filled system until sight glass was clear. when it stared to get hot outside the discharge elbows right off the compressors started breaking so they sent up a different person and he took out enought r-22 from a full unit to re-fill one that lost charge from broke elbow. Im told original charge was 100# of r-22. these chillers have an 80# receiver just before the expansion valve. right now the one we are working on has a new compressor and 50# of r-22 it was arround 70deg outside and i set fans to 30hertz and the pressere just off compressor was 275 and the same 275psi right before going into condenser. just leaving condensor we had 220psi the low side just before going into compressor was maby 50psi . about this condenser i have looked at other ones and they all have two big long tubes on the end that the small tubes conect too and the incoming vapor hooks too one and the leaving liquid hooks to the other one. our condenser has the two big tubes and one realy short one at bottom the vapor hooks to one big tube and the leaving liquid hooks to that short tube not the other gig tube . im not shure what that is i read somewhere about a sbcooling circuit? if that is what it is is it piped corectly? we only have two pipes coming from chiller to condenser.

[mad fridgie]

Good info,
It sounds like your reciever is piped incorrectly, it sounds like your reciever is piped for a free draining cond, and not a cond with a dedicated sub cooling circuit.
Possible fix. (change from flow reciever to surge reciever)
The liquid drain from the cond, needs to feed the liquid line directly. (an not to the reciever inlet) The liquid line is still connected to the reciever outlet and open. The reciever inlet is not in use (blanked off).
Your fan speed is still to low (head pressure still to high), at 70F ambient you should be looking at pressure of around 200 psi.
This does depend upon on your expansion device and your compressor capacity control method.
You also need to look at your control loop for the fan speed control, "PID"

[monkey spanners]

I have read about condensers eing piped wrong, the only way the would have liquid exiting them was if they had filled right up with liquid.

If i was you i would stand by the chiller and imagine i was some refrigerant and follow the path i would take all round the system as if the system was running, noting what state i would be in in various parts of the system as i went, and see if i could make that journey (path not blocked or restricted) and be in the right state at the right time (superheated vapour, saturated vapour, saturated liquid, subcooled liquid, saturated liquid, saturated vapour, superheated vapour, etc) take temperature and pressure readings if needed and see if this shows up anything.

Jon :)

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

sorry you lost me on the flow reciever vs surge receiver. it shure looks like there is a ton of knowledge out there i will get any information you guys need to figure this out its probly simple to someone if i can just get them the info they need please help and thanks to all for getting involved.

[Gary]

Did you get the condenser air in and air out temperatures, yet?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

sorry not yet i will get that tomorrow anything else that might be helpful it is suposed to be in the upper 90s here tomorrow

[mad fridgie]

A normal reciever all the refrigerant flows through the reciever, a surge reciever is like an expansion tank on a water system, The main flow effectively by-passes the reciever, when things change as they do, the level of the refrigerant in the reciever goes up and down.
Your problem is more than likely to be simple, but somes times you "can not see the wood for the trees"
Do you know another engineer who has NOT worked on the plant, if so I would bring him in for a quick look. Some fresh eyes and thinking

[mad fridgie]

Draw a picture of the system and indicate all working pressures and temps, also note the load if possible and the number of compressors running along with speed of the cond fan

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

can you explain a little more on the reciever im still trying to understand how that works sounds interesting im just a little slow.

[mad fridgie]

keeping it simple, a normal reciever ALL the flow for arguments sake enters the top and leaves the bottom. OK so far?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

ok i understand that

[mad fridgie]

Now lets remove the reciever completely, liquid form cond goes straight to TEV and evap. (very common and often called a critical charge system) In your case the liquid/vapour mix leave the cond and enter the sub cooling circuit.
At this stage any supercooled vapour and liquid should get sub cooled further, and you should have basically a clear sight glass at the TEV. OK so far?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

ok im with you so far

[mad fridgie]

So the above is great good condensing and proper sub cooling, but what if the system has massive changes (load, mass flow ambient) The density of the refrigerant would change and where its location would change with in the system, agree? OK

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

ok i think im with ya

[mad fridgie]

So we do not want to flood the condensor with refrigerant (drives up head pressure) and we still proper subcooling.
So we need to be able to store some refrigerant to allow for the changes in a system. (simple again) If I inserted a "T" in the liquid line with a pipe raising up and blanked at the top. When I charged the system I would fill until this pipe was half full. When TEV closes the pipe will fill and when the TEV opens the pipe will empty (this happens before chages occur in the cond/sub cooler). Only the changes moves through the pipe, not all the refrigerant. OK

[mad fridgie]

If we change this pipe into a vessel, we have greater room for change "surge reciever"
It is the dedicated sub cooling circuit which determines this method or a subcooler can be used after a standard reciever, but before the TEV

[Gary]

It might be very helpful to know the surface temperatures at various points along the liquid line, from the condenser outlet to the TXV inlet, particularly the entering and leaving temperature of each component in that line.

If this is in fact a subcooling circuit, then the receiver is not needed at all, and could simply be eliminated.

[mad fridgie]

It might be very helpful to know the surface temperatures at various points along the liquid line, from the condenser outlet to the TXV inlet, particularly the entering and leaving temperature of each component in that line.

Pressure at each measuring point would also be nice (MF)

If this is in fact a subcooling circuit, then the receiver is not needed at all, and could simply be eliminated.
Yes and no, by having a surge reciever you do remove some of the critical charge requirements

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

ok im listening but dont get it why is my sight glass so full of vapor.

[Gary]

Yes and no, by having a surge reciever you do remove some of the critical charge requirements

As does the subcooler circuit.

[mad fridgie]

As does the subcooler circuit.
Maybe, maybe not, it is all system specific.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

what do you guys think about all the bubbles at expantion valve

[Gary]

what do you guys think about all the bubbles at expantion valve

The flow of liquid is restricted somewhere between the condenser outlet and the point where you are seeing these bubbles. At the point of restriction, there will be a drop in pressure and a drop in temperature. We need to find that choke point.

[Gary]

Is there a difference in elevation between the condenser and the receiver? Is the condenser higher than the receiver? Is the condenser lower than the receiver?

Is the condenser outdoors and the receiver indoors?... or are they both outdoors?

[mad fridgie]

I have to agree with gary, information is required.
You may also have more than one problem. (one masking the other)
For example lets say the drier is partially blocked, reducing flow, so you add more refrigerant to increase the pressure, to drive more refrigerant through the restriction. As the cond becomes full of liquid, more sub cooling occurs, so less flashing would occur through the restriction and the sight glass would look clear. You still have high head pressure. The flashing in the sightglass is an affect not the cause.

[mikeref]

If the condenser were undersized, the suction pressure would be high. If the condenser were oversized, the head pressure would be low. But then... who knows what they might have done to cover their tracks?
Hey Gary, something here troubles me. O.P. says he has 30 psi drop through condenser and with 345 psi leaving the condenser, would you not consider the possibility of undersized condenser or short cycling air even with 50 psi suction pressure? Taking into account that he does not have liquid to tx but liquid/ vapour mix, this would allow valve to starve enough to keep suction pressure low? I see we don't have air on/off temps yet.. Mike.

[Gary]

What troubles me is that everyone would rather take a wild guess than take an accurate measurement. I would rather figure out what's wrong than compile a list of possible problems.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

ok 90 degree air going into condenser 110 degrees leaving but the at bottom of the coil (in what i think is the 7 degree subcooling circuit) the temp is about 103 degrees. you can really feel the temperature difference. the pressure going into condenser was 320 and leaving was 290 the pressure going into reciever was also 290 so no drop in line. the dryer has just been replaced when we put in new compressor and new r-22. only an hour of run time on it. the pressure just before compressor runs 55-60 and we have 40 degree water running through chiller barrel. I have slowed the water pump down to maintain a 9 degree delta-t so we either run pumps fast and have low delta-t or run pumps slower to get good delta-t either way we have 55 - 60 psi on low side. the condensers are outside and compressors ,reciever , and chiller barrel are inside all about the same elevation.

[Gary]

ok 90 degree air going into condenser 110 degrees leaving but the at bottom of the coil (in what i think is the 7 degree subcooling circuit) the temp is about 103 degrees. you can really feel the temperature difference. the pressure going into condenser was 320 and leaving was 290 the pressure going into reciever was also 290 so no drop in line. the dryer has just been replaced when we put in new compressor and new r-22. only an hour of run time on it. the pressure just before compressor runs 55-60 and we have 40 degree water running through chiller barrel. I have slowed the water pump down to maintain a 9 degree delta-t so we either run pumps fast and have low delta-t or run pumps slower to get good delta-t either way we have 55 - 60 psi on low side. the condensers are outside and compressors ,reciever , and chiller barrel are inside all about the same elevation.

The condenser delta-T is 110-90=20F. This should be no more than 30F dT... so there is plenty of airflow for the current load. No problem there.

In situations where the receiver is in an area that is warmer than the outdoor temperature, the pressure in the receiver can exceed the pressure in the condenser, causing liquid to back up into the condenser... a big problem in cold weather. This can be resolved with an equalizer line from the top of the receiver to the top of the condenser. Supermarket people are very familiar with these. An alternative is to put the receiver outdoors.

Your condenser is filled with liquid. This system is waaaaaaay overcharged. I would remove refrigerant until the saturated condensing temperature (SCT) is no more than 35F above the ambient temperature.

Here is a pressure/temperature chart:

http://www.refrigerants.com/pdf/URI-0342_PT%20FINAL.pdf

For R22 at 320psi, the SCT is about 136F. This is about 136-90=46F TD. Way too high.

After removing the excess refrigerant, take new temperature and pressure readings and let's see how it all looks. We also need to know the line temperatures leaving the condenser, leaving the receiver and entering the TXV.

Will removing the excess refrigerant resolve the problems? No. Hopefully it will tell us what needs to be done next.

[Gary]

the pressure going into condenser was 320 and leaving was 290 the pressure going into reciever was also 290 so no drop in line...

And what was the pressure after the receiver?

[Gary]

In situations where the receiver is in an area that is warmer than the outdoor temperature, the pressure in the receiver can exceed the pressure in the condenser, causing liquid to back up into the condenser... a big problem in cold weather. This can be resolved with an equalizer line from the top of the receiver to the top of the condenser. Supermarket people are very familiar with these. An alternative is to put the receiver outdoors.


I should add that an equalizer works by gravity. So in order for it to work properly the condenser must be at a higher elevation than the receiver.

The better fix would be to move the receiver outdoors, under the condenser... and if this condenser has a subcooling circuit, the receiver may not be needed at all.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

it does look and feel like we have a 7 degree subcoolin circuit on our condenser. today i was looking at our sporlan txv and the numbers on it show it is for 40 tons. we have 25 tons. also they are adjusted wide open. it looked like when the valve was closing i would get a clear sight glass and it looks like it opens too fast or too much and instant bubbles. still very confused im trying to get more info thanks for help hope we can get to the bottom of it.

[Gary]

It is possible that the flow is restricted at the condenser exit. The telltale symptom for this is the exit temp being lower than ambient temp.

[Gary]

it does look and feel like we have a 7 degree subcoolin circuit on our condenser. today i was looking at our sporlan txv and the numbers on it show it is for 40 tons. we have 25 tons. also they are adjusted wide open. it looked like when the valve was closing i would get a clear sight glass and it looks like it opens too fast or too much and instant bubbles. still very confused im trying to get more info thanks for help hope we can get to the bottom of it.

Generally, a TXV is able to control down to about 1/3 of it's rated capacity.

As to the adjustment, the TXV controls liquid flow. In this case, there is no liquid at the TXV inlet for it to control, so adjustment is futile.

Set all of the TXV adjustments at the midpoint. You won't be able to get an accurate adjustment until the other problems are resolved.

[Gary]

The flow is restricted somewhere between the condenser exit and the TXV inlet. Temperature readings at various points along this path will tell the story.

I'm thinking pictures would help, too.

[mad fridgie]

Over sizing the valve is now very common with R4*** refrigerants to allow for the bubbles forming. "Glide"
What we are seeing is classic hunting of the valve. hence the clear then wild bubbling. How ever we now come to an old argument (sorry Gary) about sub cooled liquid in a reciever. If we have a dedicated sub cooler with 7K sub cooling, how can we have vapour in a flowing reciever. I think we can not. It must be choker with liquid and is likely to be backing up into the cond, giving you high head pressure "so gary is correct it does look overcharged" I think this is occuring because you are trying to charge to a full sightglass. Which maybe be an issue due to the glide.

[mad fridgie]

[QUOTE=Gary;233598]The flow is restricted somewhere between the condenser exit and the TXV inlet. Temperature readings at various points along this path will tell the story.


I'm thinking pictures would help, too.[/QUOTE
More temp and pressure readings

[Gary]

For all we know, the receiver could be piped backwards. We can't see it from here. We can only "see" it through the description and the temperature/pressure readings.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

95 deg outside 305psi 140 deg leaving comp. 265psi 122deg leaving cond. (fans obviously maxed.) same 265psi 122deg at ove40 vcp-100 sporlan valve. 55-65psi suction at 52-50deg. 25ton copeland scroll zr300kce-twd-250 with R-22 and mineral oil. I have drawn a nice picture but am not smart enough to get it on here yet one of our IT people even failed me but i am still trying.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

here is a drawing that might help

[serviceman]

which is the sh and sc? by reading you have in the machine the problem is the vet.

[Gary]

here is a drawing that might help

At the right side in the drawing, it says, "135 deg". Is that the leaving air temperature?

What size is the discharge line?

[mad fridgie]

Discharge temp looks vey low, for the operating conditions "ignore this for the time being". All other high temps seem to matchup with saturation, so seems to be no sub cooling, only pressure drop.
Dare I say "non condensables" just sitting inthe top rows of the condensor, effectively reducing the cond size.

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

Yes 135deg f is what I got coming through the coil I think the line size is 1&3/8 and about the non-condensables I am very confident that we pulled the entire system down for a long time after we put the new compressor in and we used new r22

[texas64]

One has to assume the manufacturer made the proper size condenser. Just from reading these posts, I believe you have poor heat rejection in the condenser coil. So, the coil is clean, not damaged from previous overcleaning or damaged from hail or age? All the condenser fans are on for the particular section of coil? What brand/model # of chiller? What are the temps entering and leaving the condenser coil? Have you cleaned these coils? I really think the refrigerant hasn't subcooled through the coil, hence the vapor/liquid mix through the sight glass. Of course, I am assuming here....

[Gary]

Yes 135deg f is what I got coming through the coil I think the line size is 1&3/8 and about the non-condensables I am very confident that we pulled the entire system down for a long time after we put the new compressor in and we used new r22

"coming through the coil" isn't very clear. If this is leaving air temp, please say "leaving air temp". Is 135 deg the leaving air temp? If so, there is insufficient airflow through the condenser. 135-95=40F dT. The dT should be no more than 30F.

It seems very strange that the temperature did not drop between the condenser outlet and the receiver inlet, especially since the condenser is outside and the receiver is inside... and especially since the TXV is getting enough liquid to control the superheat. I assume these are actual pipe surface temperatures, right?

Discharge line size of 1 3/8 seems small for 25 tons, but the 5psi pressure drop is not excessive. Perhaps others would have a better idea of proper discharge line sizes.

[mad fridgie]

Sorry old age must be getting to me! How many compressors are on this chiller? first post you said 4 out of the 8 comps have failed, Is there 8 compressors on the chiller.

[mad fridgie]

"coming through the coil" isn't very clear. If this is leaving air temp, please say "leaving air temp". Is 135 deg the leaving air temp? If so, there is insufficient airflow through the condenser. 135-95=40F dT. The dT should be no more than 30F.

It seems very strange that the temperature did not drop between the condenser outlet and the receiver inlet, especially since the condenser is outside and the receiver is inside... and especially since the TXV is getting enough liquid to control the superheat. I assume these are actual pipe surface temperatures, right?

Discharge line size of 1 3/8 seems small for 25 tons, but the 5psi pressure drop is not excessive. Perhaps others would have a better idea of proper discharge line sizes.

Size of the discharge line looks OK if only a single comp.

If the condensing is still occurring (which it seems to be doing) then you would not see a drop in temp in the drain leg (cond to reciever)

He has assured us that there are no condensables, not ovecharged.

Physical surface area has been idicated as very similar to others, without a problem. Air off is very warm!

Are you sure the fans are rotaing in the right direction?
Are the blades mounted the correct way on the shaft?
Do the moters have the correct number of poles (are they spinning at the right speed)? Hence the correct airflow

[Gary]

Now that the superheat is in the ballpark, I would adjust the water flow to raise the evap dT up to 10F.

[Gary]

Discharge temp looks vey low, for the operating conditions...

Discharge temp is directly related to compressor inlet superheat. I suspect the 12F superheat shown in the picture is measured at the compressor inlet rather than the evap outlet. The low discharge temp can be simply remedied by tweaking the TXV adjustment. One turn clockwise should be just about right.

[mad fridgie]

Discharge temp is directly related to compressor inlet superheat. I suspect the 12F superheat shown in the picture is measured at the compressor inlet rather than the evap outlet. The low discharge temp can be simply remedied by tweaking the TXV adjustment. One turn clockwise should be just about right.
Under the conditions given I would expect the discharge to be well over 200F, if the measurement was right, then flood back would be occurring, Discharge temp is directly related to suction SH, internal SH, compression ratio, efficiency and comp heat loss

[Gary]

Under the conditions given I would expect the discharge to be well over 200F, if the measurement was right, then flood back would be occurring, Discharge temp is directly related to suction SH, internal SH, compression ratio, efficiency and comp heat loss

And the adjustable variable is...

[mad fridgie]

And the adjustable variable is...
If he has 12F SH at the compressor, then thats OK, so he has either no suction superheat or his temperature discharge reading is wrong.

[Gary]

We are missing one of the key indicators, i.e. the liquid line temperature at the outlet of the receiver.

[sfnz]

check TX valve element, particularly it the valve is welded on , had a few "from new"failures and partial failures there

[chillerman2006]

We are missing .

Your not wrong

This is like the best book I ever read

But some-ones ripped out the back pages !

Do hope Energy Knight returns so you guys can finish

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

sorry. its been a while. I am thinking that the company that "custom built" these condensers (with a strange subcooling circuit) goofed up. just look at the pressure going into condenser and pressure leaving condenser. looking at 265psi and 122deg. with r-22 looks like 0 sub cooling. but if I still had my 300psi and 122deg we would have a lot of liquid correct? the condenser manufacturer is looking back at the condensers and have mentioned that they should have that subcooling circuit. hopefully they will get us a different condenser that works. otherwise we get out the lawyers or the tourch and repipe condenser somehow.

[Yuri B.]

Energy knight, just concerning the mentioned by Mad fridge low discharge SH: does the compressor have a liquid injection line for its cooling?

[Gary]

sorry. its been a while. I am thinking that the company that "custom built" these condensers (with a strange subcooling circuit) goofed up. just look at the pressure going into condenser and pressure leaving condenser. looking at 265psi and 122deg. with r-22 looks like 0 sub cooling. but if I still had my 300psi and 122deg we would have a lot of liquid correct? the condenser manufacturer is looking back at the condensers and have mentioned that they should have that subcooling circuit. hopefully they will get us a different condenser that works. otherwise we get out the lawyers or the tourch and repipe condenser somehow.

That's the real question: Do we replace the condenser?... or do we make it work?

[ENERGY KNIGHT]

there is no liquid injection line. and i goofed i said the condenser manufacturer said we should have that subcooling circuit and i mean to say we should not have that circuit. I really want to re-pipe the headers on the end of the condenser but am not 100% shure on how to do it right.