HELP Please....

[DodgeViper]

I have a few questions and hope someone can help me. I have installed a new Heat Pump. The air-handler is rated at 5 ton while the Condensing Unit is rated at 4 ton. I am told that this site-up will give me a 14 Seer system. The Condensing unit was shipped over-charged to handle the air-handler plus 15 feet of additional line. In order for me to connect the air-handler and the condensing unit I had to add an additional 27 feet of line, this causing me to increase the large line to 1-1/8” as called for in the manual.

Once I evacuated the line set, air-handler using a vacuum pump, I was able to hold a vacuum without any lost until I began to charge the system the following day. Once the valves were open the system came to life, but here is my question. How much refrigerant is needed to fill the additional 27 feet of 1-1/8” and the 3/8” line? With having a 30 LB bottle of R22 on a scale I had added nearly 6 pounds of refrigerant on the low suction line and I am still getting frost build up from the valve and passed the accumulator tank. Outside air temp is 95 degrees and on the high side of the gauge I was only reading about 100 degrees on the R22 scale. The AMP reading is 12.9 amps and the system says it should be around 18.2 RLA. The inside air just above the coils is only producing 59.5 degree air temps.

With the frost build up and high side temps it appears to me that the system is still under charged. I know all systems are different and my knowledge is very limited on refrigeration. The only knowledge I have is from a refrigeration book from work and refrigeration mechanic I have little trust in, outside of him owning all the equipment I need to charge the system.

[frank]

The Condensing unit was shipped over-charged to handle the air-handler plus 15 feet of additional line.
Thats fine if the unit has not lost any charge between the factory and your back yard. All you should need to do is add a top up charge.

I was able to hold a vacuum without any lost until I began to charge the system the following day.
Do you mean it starting to leak when you added charge?

I had added nearly 6 pounds of refrigerant on the low suction line and I am still getting frost build up from the valve and passed the accumulator tank.
Are you getting frosting on the indoor coil? Do you have a sight glass fitted? Is the AHU coil on capillary or TEV control?

The AMP reading is 12.9 amps and the system says it should be around 18.2 RLA.
A sure sign of under charge

With the frost build up and high side temps it appears to me that the system is still under charged.
Good observation.

Without a sight glass, charging scale, temperature meter or experience you will not be able to determine if the system is fully charged.

I don't know what the next step will be.

[Peter_1]

Hello, let me introduce myself: I'm DodgeViper......:D :p
Brand?
Capillary or TEV
You're sure of the gas R22,
TR of the system?
Added 6 pounds???--> I should start worry now about the compressor.
Temperature of the different rows of the evapoartor?
Pressures?

[DodgeViper]

Hi Peter_1,

I guess that was not very polite on my part not introducing myself in my first post to this forum. So I need to backup a bit here… My name is Keith and I live in Tucson, AZ in the USA. I am an Electrical Engineer installing my first Heat Pump. A little bit more about myself, in my spare time (WOW, who has spare time) I drive a Top Fuel Hydro (boat 230 MPH), I drive a Class 1 Off-Road race car, build custom water-cooled computers, and have built my entire home from plumbing, framing, electrical, sheet-metal work, etc…

When it came time to install the heat pump I was going to have a professional come and do the work. After having a few contractors to our home and receiving a few outrageous bids to install a heat pump system I decided to tackle this job myself. I pride myself in not having to pay anyone to do any work when I feel confident of doing the work myself. Next was to dive head first into a refrigeration book at work to prepare myself for the next adventure of my life. Once the heat pump equipment arrived I began to layout what and how I was going to tackle the job from running the type L copper to sweating everything together and making sure I had no leaks.

What did I find wrong with the system today? As I said I did not have much confidence in our Refrigeration Mechanic, but I have to go easy on him as he has been going through some tuff times in his life. The day he was over at my home he cracked open the services valves to let the charge slowly transfer through the system, but he made a huge error, he forgot to open both services valves completely and this was the problem and why the frost was forming. The system is still slightly under charge by the photo below.

So what lesson did I learn? To follow my number 1 rule, do the work entirely myself and not count on others. Tomorrow I will bring the scale and R22 and finish the job… The photo below is with the ambient outside air temp at 87.5 degrees. RLA is 13.8. Manual says the system RLA should be around 18.2.

In addition to this heat pump I have purchased a Hot Water Tank Heat Recovery Unit from Trevor Martin. This unit ties into the hot gas side of the compressor. The unit has a circulating pump that will circulate water from the hot water tank through the recovery unit and back to the hot water tank providing me with free hot water while I am heating or cooling the home. This will also make the heat pump more efficient and provide another way to dissipate the heat from the compressor.

[Steve Wright]

DodgeViper

There should be a charging chart on unit. If it doesn't have one Private Message me and I'll send you one.

Hey on those water cooled computers, what are they there for, are you concerned about water leakage?

Steve

[DodgeViper]

Well after I said I build custom water-cooled computers I thought someone would ask or say "WHAT? so I decided to show off a few. The purpose of water cooling is to overclock the processor and get more speed out of it. I was able to take a 1700 MHz AMD processor and run it up to 2640MHz. This is nearly 1 gig over it's intend clock speed.

[Peter_1]

I think you didn't notice that there is since a long time a special section of CPU overclockers on this forum?
This is a real watercooled PC.
Some of our posters build themselves autocascade systems to -80°C!!
Have a look at the website of Dabit.

[DodgeViper]

I think you didn't notice that there is since a long time a special section of CPU overclockers on this forum?
This is a real watercooled PC.
Some of our posters build themselves autocascade systems to -80°C!!
Have a look at the website of Dabit.

The Koolance thingy is not a practical working water cooled computer. It was more of a gimmick to get peoples attention at trade shows. I saw that thing years ago in Las Vegas and one would have to know the entire story behind such a stunt as the Koolance water tank computer.

[botrous]

Hi Dodgeviper , what Peter meant by saying that " Some of our posters build themselves autocascade systems to -80°C!!
Have a look at the website of Dabit "

He was directing you to this :
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=65

He was saying that the forum have a section of overcloking CPUs

Regards

[DodgeViper]

Hi Dodgeviper , what Peter meant by saying that " Some of our posters build themselves autocascade systems to -80°C!!
Have a look at the website of Dabit "

He was directing you to this :
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=65

He was saying that the forum have a section of overcloking CPUs

Regards

I was just poking a little fun at the Koolance water-cooled computer. Most overclockers look at the Koolance equipment as a lot of whistles and bells without much bang for the buck. I had visited the CPU forum but it does not appear much happening it the forum.

There are many dedicated forums for overclockers on the web. I came to this forum for refrigeration information and got sidetracked on the overclocking issue when Peter basically informed me to introduce myself.

[botrous]

Welcome dodgeviper , if you found the overclocker section cold , why don't you try to heat it :)

[Peter_1]

....I had visited the CPU forum but it does not appear much happening it the forum.

There are many dedicated forums for overclockers on the web. I came to this forum for refrigeration information and got sidetracked on the overclocking issue when Peter basically informed me to introduce myself.

I have a very basic schematic of a Poycold I took a copy of when a Polycold technician went to the toilet.
It's already 10 years old but the basics behind the system remain still the same.