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Lee Davies
04-09-2005, 11:42 PM
Hello I Am 17 years of age and am really interested in the refrigeration engineer career path, and have been for a long while now

Since I Have Left School I Have Been In Employment But Also Endlessley Applying At Refrigeration Companies Such As WR, Fridgetech.com ect And Have Had No Luck,

Many Times Ive Been To Connexions And Skills Solution To Search There Also With No Luck, I Am Endlessley Searching Online Over The Telephone And Nowhere Has Vacancies Or So They Say, I Am Keen And Willing And Would Love To Be Given The Chance As An Engineer In Refridge So If Anyone Has Any Offers Or Advice Please Help Me Thank You

Regards Lee

botrous
04-09-2005, 11:47 PM
Wish you luck man , all I can offer is my wishes , but le ask you soemthing , did you try to search the refrigeration jobs data base of this forum ?
if not try it , the ads are on every page you view in this forum , just click it

Best regards

Lee Davies
05-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Hi thanks for wishing me look but i really need advice

this morning i got up early and walked for an hour and half searching for the salford WR refrigeration unit and ask there about getting into the business now they say they dont give training so i am out of luck yet again
i have no expierience in engineering and everyone has to start somewhere any help anybody please ?

rbartlett
05-09-2005, 05:37 PM
Hi thanks for wishing me look but i really need advice

this morning i got up early and walked for an hour and half searching for the salford WR refrigeration unit and ask there about getting into the business now they say they dont give training so i am out of luck yet again
i have no expierience in engineering and everyone has to start somewhere any help anybody please ?

Lee I got your email today and shall be phoning round a few contacts I have

Hopefully something can come of it..

cheers

richard

piston broke
05-09-2005, 08:08 PM
Hi

If you interested in moving there is a severe lack of engineers in Aberdeen.

Contact any company there and I'm sure you'll be given a chance.

Good Luck

P.

sean1
05-09-2005, 09:12 PM
try joining a course at college. get some basic knowledge and skills build on that .they have at my college a board which companies use to recruit apprentices

Lee Davies
05-09-2005, 11:00 PM
I have applied at colleges and all have been full for some time, some even since february last year, but i cant just keep sitting around waiting to re apply at colleges i want to be on the job as this is definately a career i want to persue, richard i got ur email thanks very much i will be keeping my fingers crossed as this is very important to me
thanks again lee

Johnny Rod
06-09-2005, 09:24 AM
York have a big site in Manchester don't they?

Lee Davies
06-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Yes I Have Phoned York And They Say That They Have No Vacancies At Any Base For Me Which I Think Is Absolute Bullsh*t If You Ask Me

Peter_1
06-09-2005, 07:30 PM
If you're realy 17 years old and so eager to work as a Refrigeration technician, then I'm sure you will find your way.
Young boys who realy wanna work with their hands are difficult to find.
You have anyway the right attitude for this job.
I like your style.

But why you chose for this job?

Don't try - at least in the beginning - with the big companies, they prefer those who studied and think they know it all and can explain it all.

Can't you contact a small local tech who need someone only for the weekends? Don't expect or ask for the big money: the first thing that you must searching for is an opportunity to learn something, to gain experience.
Money must be the second on your wishlist.

If you should live here closer, you could start herein the weekends. So why shouldn't there be someone close to you who thinks the same.

Many jobs are delayed till the weekend because its easier then to find someone to help for these jobs you can't do alone: installing a compressor, installing a cold-room, installing a small AC split...

Steal with your eyes, learn with your eyes as much as possible and try to understand what and why they're doing something.
Every tech is performing tasks which on the first hand seems ridiculous but has many times a special reason.
Try to understand this or ask why they're doing something.
Like purging the line of your manifold some seconds: I even don't think of it when I'm attaching my lines to a compressor, but client sometimes ask me: 'Why you're releasing some gas, it's so expensive'

Read HVAC/R books, good books...Inest ion your education.

Make yourself familiar understanding the pressure/enthalpy chart.

Try to visualize what happens when the condenser becomes dirty, when there's ice on the evaporator,
when you have a restriction,...
Don't learn some tricks like a monkey.

Never believe without thinking yourselves what others say. Make that it's clear for you.

Ask at the techs you work for if they haven't some scrap material so that you can learn something.
Take a grinder and open a compressor to see what's inside. If you've seen it once, you will better understand it.

Try to understand the working principle of a TEV.

Try to understand the meaning of subcool and superheat.

Read through the small manuals of electronic thermostats you often use (Eliwell, Dixell, Carel...)

I could continue some time but I think you're getting my point.

PS:Richard - where is MArc anyway- ...he contacted Fridgetech he said.;) ;)

Andy W
06-09-2005, 07:44 PM
Have you thought about popping in to RPW on Trafford Park, they are only wholesalers but fridge engineers of all levels including service managers and reps are popping in constantly, may be worth a try.

chillin out
06-09-2005, 07:45 PM
Hi Pist bro,

whats the money like up there?
compaired to a decent 3 bed house

p.s.
PS:Richard - where is MArc anyway- ...he contacted Fridgetech he said.
Its ok if he wants to stay away maybe we can knock him of the top posting rank! lol
Truth be told im nearly starting to miss his philosophical outlook :) :)

eggs
06-09-2005, 08:01 PM
PM me, i,m in bolton.
And thinking about getting a boy.

cheers

eggs

rbartlett
06-09-2005, 08:13 PM
Hi Pist bro,

whats the money like up there?
compaired to a decent 3 bed house

p.s.
Its ok if he wants to stay away maybe we can knock him of the top posting rank! lol
Truth be told im nearly starting to miss his philosophical outlook :) :)


Marc doesn't awlays remember to spread out the word so I didn't get to hear about this guy.

We only just in the last 2 months took on a 17yr old to start him on an apprenticeship so we have no openings here for him ...sadly

The problem with such young guy's is things like van insurance which really wacks you (esp as ours just stuffed the van for 2.5k)

I spoke to a friend tonight who is the account manager for a big company in B.ham but he told me that they's just lost a big northern contract so actually laid off 2 guy's in Manchester :-(


cheers

richard

US Iceman
06-09-2005, 08:31 PM
Do not be discouraged by trying to get started in this industry. I believe everyone has had the same problem, or something similar.

Peter had the best recommendation.


Don't learn some tricks like a monkey;) .

I might add, as a parrot too. :D

Some people learn the wrong way to do something, and when they teach it, guess what?

Learn the basics. How refrigerants work first. Then how the components operate.

Refrigeration systems have four basic parts; compressor, condenser, evaporator, and expansion device. Each of these performs a specific function. How they work together depends on the piping, installation, and how carefully the components are matched.

These are the same principles for R-134a, or ammonia, or propane. Some systems have bigger parts, others much smaller. Some systems use cap tubes, others use pneumatically controlled expansion valves. Some are easy to understand, others a little more complex.

I tell beginners to ask questions like a 2 year old child.

Why, when, where, how much, you get the point. If someone cannot explain something to you that makes sense, they do not know the answer very well.

Read catalogs, brochures, books, and ask questions.

There is no such thing as a dumb question except the one that did not get asked! Sometimes there are exceptions to this rule. You know it when you hear it!

Someone may be more inclined to give you a try if you know something before you go there to ask for a job. It's called initiative. I think you have that, otherwise you would not be asking these questions.

Keep it up and don't quit trying!

botrous
06-09-2005, 09:36 PM
:cool: As a teacher I agree both of US Iceman and Peter .
1)Get and understand the basics once and for all
2)Understand how a refrigeration system works by understanding how each component wroks and then try to assemble it together to see what you got
3)Don't be in a hurry and buy books from everywhere , because it will all end on the shelve unread , read each book/course , when finished and well understood head for the next
4)In your training period , do not memorize things , asl why we did that , how did we diagnose that , any other possible faults with the same symptoms and then try to figure out what made the system to fail ..... then while fixing ask why that procedure is used . . . etc

Wish you luck

Best regards:D :D :D

Lee Davies
06-09-2005, 11:21 PM
:) Thank You For The Advice, First Thing In The Morning I Will Go Around All The Local Electrical Shops Ect Around My Area And Ask There Ill Let You Know How It Goes Everyone, Wish Me Luck

eggs
07-09-2005, 12:18 AM
PM me, i,m in bolton.
And thinking about getting a boy.

cheers

eggs

First you need to be able to follow instructions, if you are unsure of these instructions, do not be afraid to ask for clarification.
Realistically, if you can not read and understand a simple request, what hope is there of anybody investing LARGE amounts money in you future training?

I don't mean to be harsh, but to start at the bottom of our trade is hard work, if you could learn to read and understand what is written before your eyes, and then could contemplate spending a winter carrying some grumpy underpaid engineers toolbox and copper pipe up 15 floors of some building site with no walls in -3C weather, on the off-chance you MAY learn something, try again.

If on the otherhand, you think i'm being unfair with my comments, feel free to apply an the A/C isle in B&Q.

cheers

eggs

Lee Davies
07-09-2005, 12:47 AM
Hello Eggs Sorry About The Misunderstanding In Your Post I Have PM'd You Anyhow Thank You Please Reply Lee

botrous
07-09-2005, 11:44 AM
Good luck Lee , and welcome to the trade .......
The first steps are difficult to make , but not impossible

Stav
09-09-2005, 10:08 AM
Hi Lee,
No body in my area would train me either. It took me a long time to break into the game properly, and i'm only just getting there now. I had to start with working for shopfitting companies on the refrigeration/case prep department, quizing the other engineers constantly about what was happening. I should explain, I was brought in to design and build control circuits initially, and built on it from there. I'm glad I stuck it as long as I did, because it has helped me meet a lot of people within the industry that I can ask about problems. Plus I can say I did it on my own now, and it WAS hard, but it is possible. If you really want it, you'll get it. Good luck.

Stav
09-09-2005, 10:17 AM
quick thought, try to get as much engineering experience in other areas as much as possible, especially electrics. Electrical knowledge is where I managed to get ahead of everyone I worked with. Learn diagrams properly, and this may seem daft, but how to draw them properly as well. This in turn will help you to read diagrams properly, and if you install a new panel, it is easier for the next engineer who attends site.
Hope this helps. Good luck once again.

Simon Butler
09-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Stav's advice is good, I was helping my Dad build control panels from the schematic drawings he made before i even left school, then as there was no fridge courses at the local college i studied electrical installation and learned the fridge on the job. I have met many older and more experienced engineers who never quite understand the electrical side of the job, which I reckon is about 50% of the job on service work.

P.S. Keep in touch if you want some casual work.

Simon.

neil sailes
09-09-2005, 09:31 PM
Hi Lee

If you contact City and Guilds Refrigeration course department and ask for Paul Sign, he is the external verifier, and I know for a fact that he has a number of different training schools around the country. If you have problems getting in at your local edudation centre, I can put a bet on it that he can help you get in. Also try contacting agencies like Mandeville Recruitment, HR Reflex and Handley Consultancy because these companies specialise in our trade.

Hope that is any help
Neil

Stav
11-09-2005, 03:47 PM
I have met many older and more experienced engineers who never quite understand the electrical side of the job, which I reckon is about 50% of the job on service work.
Simon.

I've got to say, and i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the level of wiring in refrigeration is very low. Sometimes borderline on dangerous.

coldone
11-09-2005, 06:49 PM
Hi Richard,
We are currently looking for a young lad to undertake an apprentaship with our company. However we are based in South Cheshire and require someone local and able to drive. I will phone around a few of my contacts in the meantime try Openshaw tech.

coldone
11-09-2005, 06:51 PM
Hi Lee,
We are currently looking for a young lad to undertake an apprentaship with our company. However we are based in South Cheshire and require someone local and able to drive. I will phone around a few of my contacts in the meantime try Openshaw tech.

chemi-cool
11-09-2005, 07:03 PM
I've got to say, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the level of wiring in refrigeration is very low.

Hi Stav,

I have to say that you don't have a clue, how wrong you are.

In refrigeration and air condition, electrics can and are so complicated, that "normal" sparkies, loose their heads and hands trying to find a fault.

I do it for so many years and its not as simple as it looks.

Chemi:)

botrous
11-09-2005, 08:43 PM
Hi Stav how are you ?
Electrical wiring in refrigeration is almost the same as electromechanics , it's controlling a mechanical system that involves power lines and control lines ... and it can get very complicated because there are a lot of things to take in consideration in the control circuit such as tempreture , pressure , humididty , fans speed etc , all of those make other devices to work such as contactors , relays etc and in more complicated systems the data is addmited to a PLC or a microcontroller which controlls relays and other devices . . .
That's appart from the security wirings , such as electrical interlock between contactors etc . . .and from the starting of a monophase motor and it's protection

Does that seem to be so simple and low ???

chillin out
11-09-2005, 08:56 PM
I think people (Botrous and Chemi) have missunderstood Stav.
I think he meant that the state of some wireing and that the condition of control electrics is low (of poor and unacceptable condition) , not that it was easy to wire systems.

Sometimes borderline on dangerous.
Thats why he said this.
:) :) :)

I have to agree with him on this as I have seen some really shoddy wireing (sh1te).
Some people should not be let loose on things they know nothing about, like even the basics of wireing in an air con unit that fatboy came accross.

chemi-cool
11-09-2005, 09:04 PM
In that case, I agree.

Sorry Stav;)

Chemi:)

Peter_1
11-09-2005, 09:42 PM
Our latest switch-cupboard my son made.

botrous
11-09-2005, 10:41 PM
I think , what i should say is sorry , then sorry :) stav

botrous
11-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Very organized and good looking work by your son Peter , congartulations :)
And i bet it works in harmony and without errors
:D like father like son:D

chillin out
11-09-2005, 10:55 PM
Very nice work , now don`t you go and tamper with it in jelousy.lol
:) :) :)

edit: Lets just see what it looks like in 5 years time in the service field.

US Iceman
11-09-2005, 11:23 PM
Peter,

You should be very proud of your son. He did an excellent job on the layout and construction.

Everyone should build and wire these to fully understand the controls. And of course, developing the control logic and drawings is also very good experience.

Chillin out also had some very good comments. Most of the control boards I have seen over the years do not stay looking this way for some reason. Wires are always laying around instead of in the wire trays. Pencil marks all over the doors where someone revised the wiring.:confused: Maybe they were just taking notes.:D

chemi-cool
12-09-2005, 04:09 AM
Nice work, Peter.

Does he take jobs from abroad?

Chemi:)

eam1956
17-10-2005, 07:00 PM
I must agree with chemi, when I worked for Prestcold back in the 80s we were not allowed to wire new installations. They used to send normal sparks to do the job I always had to draw them diagrams and explain control circuits etc. What a farce.

frosty74
18-10-2005, 08:25 PM
there is a company in oldham called jordon refrigeration and a/c they are in need of young apprentices.
tel 0161 622 9710 you should get a bite there

frosty74
18-10-2005, 08:32 PM
there is a company in oldham called jordon refrigeration and a/c they have vacancies for apprentices tel 0161 622 9710 be a good place to gain experience if you are hard working and willing to learn good look matie

mr cool
12-12-2006, 10:24 AM
hey bud, have you tried space? i know that they take on apprentices. also dont forget the smaller firms as they can give you a good start.

taz24
12-12-2006, 03:22 PM
Since I Have Left School I Have Been In Employment But Also Endlessley Applying At Refrigeration Companies Such As WR, Fridgetech.com ect And Have Had No Luck,


Regards Lee


You sound like the type of person most companies are looking for.
You need to get your name about, try contacting all the firms within a fifty mile radius and keep badgering them. Get yourself enrolled on a course and if you have to wait for one then do electrical unitll fridge comes up. If you keep in contact with all the companies local to you something will come up. While training get your 2078 gas handling quall this will make you more desirable to the company.
Fund your own training because untill you are 19 you will get funding from the govenment. If you then go to companies and tell them you are in training and have your gas handling they are more likly to want you. Do not take no as an answer if you want the job then keep asking.

Good luck
taz.

Chillin'
21-12-2006, 02:34 PM
Peter,

We are not supposed to purge our gauges any more. Not even for a second!

Trying to help

:)

Peter_1
21-12-2006, 06:36 PM
This was a reply on which post?

What's better, purging your lines for 2 seconds or inserting non-condensables into the system with an increased absorbed power for years where the electricity generating plants will produce much more CO2 over the years :confused:

Mark
21-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Hi lee:)

Have you considered applying for Work Experience for a start.

Kind regards

Mark

Matt_H
04-01-2007, 11:04 PM
Hope things are looking up for u after the festive period mate. just thought i would add my little bit, i left the army and put my self on a course in doncaster at a place called tech train. They were really good and i learnt alot in three weeks tho it was VERY intesnse as i had it all crammed in. I came out with the quals and am now gaining the xperience.

I came out with every thin most employers would want and was lucky the company im with now gave me the cance to get a fot in the door and am doin ok now.

All the best with the hunt mate.

Maybe see if u could get a job at somewhere like climate center or anothe whole saler that way u will be gettin to know all different types of equipment and products. As there are times i go in and get all confused and mixed up with different bit of kit that may do the same as the bits i want if u get my meanin.

Matt