a/c versus refrigeration in australia?

[paul_h]

I always avoided refrigeration, didn't like the prospect of late nights, 24hr call out etc. At least in a/c you can tell them to call you back tomorrow.
But I'm sick of a/c, the equipment, the roof spaces, the call outs to a job that some hack installed with his arctick licence.
I want a real job where it has nothing to do with redoing some idiots flares, not climbing into roof spaces on a 40C day and getting covered in fibreglass insulation to boot.
I hate where I live and most places where I'd like to live have a colder climate and a/c is not common.
So that's the final straw. What are interesting fields and companies to work for in australia if I wanted to just do refrigeration. The crazier and more different the better.
I don't mean domestic refrig! Done enough and still doing domestic refrig.
Not ready for an office job, I like varying environments and working alone.

edit:
But to anyone else without local (australian) information. Tell me why you prefer refrig over a/c or vice versa generally no matter where your work/live.

[frank]

Difficult question to answer Paul, as I've never worked in the commercial or industrial refrig business. My background has always been in A/C. I'm not talking about installing splits - the A/C business is more than that.

Because the A/C side is so diverse, I enjoy the challenge as each job is different. Some jobs are chiller based to serve process cooling or A/C fan coils or even just central plant AHU's. Other jobs are quite complex involving AHU's, distribution ductwork systems over several floors of a building, fan coils, re-heat batteries, etc.etc.

Not forgetting of course the diverse VRV/VRF jobs.

Same sh*t but many different applications.

I'm spending more and more of my time just lately trouble shooting other people's designs and installations that just do not live up to expectations. Interesting work, but I prefer to be hands on.

I know what you mean about crawling around in roof spaces and getting covered in the fluffy stuff :D

[Brian_UK]

and most places where I'd like to live have a colder climate and a/c is not commonIs the an increasing market or potential market for heat pump technology where you would like to live?

[charlie patt]

do both ac and ref one miniute on a split next on a swimming pool heat pump next a cold room dont be afraid of any refrigeration system after all when you remove all the electronic devises what do have left? a comp a condensor a evap and a metering devise that way you never get board because you never know what you are on

[monkey spanners]

With ac i prefer installation work, i haven't had to do much trouble shooting on newer inverter stuff so am a bit out of practice.
On the fridge side i enjoy install work when i can put stuff in as i like without worrying about being too expensive or taking too long.
I enjoy the breakdowns on fridge stuff, we do stuff from a bottle cooler up to a 30,000L milk cooling plant and 700M freezer room, mostly mid range between the two extremes though.

I find its not so much the work that i don't enjoy but the customers who are only concerned with saving money and not paying or want things bodged. They know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
I have considered doing something else but after a while i realise these sorts of people are everywhere! so i am unlikley to avoid them while i still work with customers.

With fridge you need to keep more stuff in stock, driers txv's fan motors, refrigierants, enough to get most things working again if its out of hours, also seems to need more heavy tools, socket sets, chain blocks/slings, oxy kit etc than air con.

Jon :)

[Tesla]

Hi Paul
I feel the same way as you do. I have been doing a/c mainly in Sydney for 11 years. I started mainly in commercial buildings in the CBD doing chillers, pumps, AHUs etc. Then for the last 6 years I got into BMS controls with a bias on energy management. So today I am doing something about it - going back tho where I started refrigeration. I have an interview with Mcalpine today. I'll have to relearn a few things and clean the rust of those extra tools. Not sure how it will work out but I hope there will be a little more overtime and better job security. I will also finally have to get my qualifications recognised (NZ) and the licenses elect and arctic (very expensive). Then there will be the new gases as most of my experience is 22, 12, 502, 11 and 123. I tried an office job last year and have found I've been getting fatter also I miss the company vehicle. The idea of becoming a Tutor after a few more years is growing on me, I hear the pay is ok and lots of holidays with no callouts.
I miss the feeling I had when I was an apprentice, I really looked forward to waking up in the morning and going to work, I was happy. I have not had a real job for nearly two years and enjoyed the time off but we all have bills to pay and that lotto ticket - I'm still waiting to win lol.

[mikeref]

OOPS, now the penny has dropped, looking for a change in life is what many in any workforce would like, so Paul h, guess you have already weighed up options and to add a little from this side of the island.. from Cairns to Rockhampton, the climate is mostly hot and humid with plenty of work in a/c and refrig, challenging and exciting, always callouts though. I was leading hand in maintenance and breakdown for one company that focused on commercial and industrial gear including mine sites/hospitals/highrise etc, however it was the constant heat and humidity,24/7 that broke my spirit,so i quit the fast lane and headed for the hills. Now for the past 16+ years, been working alone and having to do the smaller work as a trade-off for a much cooler and comfortable lifestyle. Income is also less as would be expected. Fridges/freezers/coldrooms, install maybe 4 splits/year, look after many others, might take on a dairy or two, vehicle a/c repairs and 12 volt fridges are regular. The odd run out to cattle stations are a nice change and home every night for several beers. No callouts but no holidays either, just weekends and p/holidays... Mike.

[paul_h]

Difficult question to answer Paul, as I've never worked in the commercial or industrial refrig business. My background has always been in A/C. I'm not talking about installing splits - the A/C business is more than that.

Because the A/C side is so diverse, I enjoy the challenge as each job is different. Some jobs are chiller based to serve process cooling or A/C fan coils or even just central plant AHU's. Other jobs are quite complex involving AHU's, distribution ductwork systems over several floors of a building, fan coils, re-heat batteries, etc.etc.

Not forgetting of course the diverse VRV/VRF jobs.

Same sh*t but many different applications.

I'm spending more and more of my time just lately trouble shooting other people's designs and installations that just do not live up to expectations. Interesting work, but I prefer to be hands on.

I know what you mean about crawling around in roof spaces and getting covered in the fluffy stuff :D
Yeah a/c can be pretty diverse, I started my career with AHUs, chillers and BMS. But for the past 7 years just done split systems. I've always done a litle refrig as well, I just want to work on big stuff now though.



Is the an increasing market or potential market for heat pump technology where you would like to live?

Here's the thing, real estate is really expensive in Australia still. In about a year I'm selling the small city block I own to hopefull walk away from a $350k mortgage, (house has already been knocked down).
Right now I'm living in a temp house which I have to be out of soon (falling to pieces, my brother wants to knock it down soon). So I can't really afford to live in any major city as I don;t want a huge mortgage all my life to pay off, so probably looking to move into some backwater town somewhere cheaper to live, where they'll be no such thing as big a/c.
So it's either carry on what I'm doing, which I hate and there may not be much work in small town, or move to refrig because that's everywhere including cooler climates down south.

[mad fridgie]

I think we all go through the mid life crisis, I have been going through mine for 20 years. Refrigeration/AC luv or hate it, but it does seem to get into the blood.
I do see on many occassions refrigeration jobs offered for the remote resort complexs (in Aus), pay is not great but most day to day expenses are covered. Whitsunday Islands always seem to be looking.
These jobs, to me would seem to be a bit cruszy after a while, you would master the equipment, set yourself up a maintence schedual (keep the break downs to a minimum), the rest of the time like a paid holiday (talking about it makes me want to go now), Her indoors but a kiabosh on the idea, not enough shopping for her! I did say she could become a cleaner, so no time for shopping. "I now have a black eye"
Good luck

[mikeref]

I think we all go through the mid life crisis, I have been going through mine for 20 years. Refrigeration/AC luv or hate it, but it does seem to get into the blood.
I do see on many occassions refrigeration jobs offered for the remote resort complexs (in Aus), pay is not great but most day to day expenses are covered. Whitsunday Islands always seem to be looking.
These jobs, to me would seem to be a bit cruszy after a while, you would master the equipment, set yourself up a maintence schedual (keep the break downs to a minimum), the rest of the time like a paid holiday (talking about it makes me want to go now), Her indoors but a kiabosh on the idea, not enough shopping for her! I did say she could become a cleaner, so no time for shopping. "I now have a black eye"
Good luck
My missus works away from home so i keep the t.v. remote to myself. Paul h, going back onto the big stuff will mean after hours and weekend calls plus city life again. Northern Territory, too hot, Alice Springs, too isolated, Queensland, too wet. Have just the place, Tasmania, Never seen temps go over 25c. One customer who moved here from the territory said to me, y'know what N.T. stands for?... Not Today! Call for help up there and standard responce is Not Today!!

[paul_h]

Yeah Vic or tas is where I'm thing of, hence looking into refrig rather than a/c.
You know what WA stands for? Wait Awhile.

This is my second ML crisis, I left the trade all together 11 years back after 5 years in the trade and started a uni degree in computer science. Got bored of it though so never finished the degree.

[Tesla]

Paul
Had you thought of coming to Sydney? You like the big stuff and have BMS experience - Dalkia (Trane, Trend and Tracer) has some of the biggest stuff I've seen one plant with 7 of the biggest chillers in Ausi and two complete BMS systems. I worked there for nearly 2 years until redundancy. Most of my work was in air conditioned space, but I had virtually no overtime or call outs (which I wanted). I rent and live less than 5 km from the CBD and the cost of rent isn't too bad but I could not afford to buy of course. In saying that I am open to the right job in Adelaide or Melbourne. I lived in Melbourne before and loved it - the people are down to earth and lots of interesting stuff to do with the family, where Sydney is a bit expensive to go out in the week end. Hence we plan overseas trips to keep the wife happy and give me a break.

[Gary]

If you walk down a road long enough, it becomes your road. Love it or hate it... it's what you do.

Sooner or later the honeymoon is over and you show up for work every day because they pay you.

If you're looking for answers to the midlife crisis, I don't have any. I'm retired and still going through it. Still not sure what I want to do when I grow up.

[mad fridgie]

Yeah Vic or tas is where I'm thing of, hence looking into refrig rather than a/c.
You know what WA stands for? Wait Awhile.

This is my second ML crisis, I left the trade all together 11 years back after 5 years in the trade and started a uni degree in computer science. Got bored of it though so never finished the degree.
I know what you mean, I work my balls of in the UK, had company, staff, made me money as i thought, wife had family in NZ. Thought I would bring all those lovely pounds to NZ buy my dream home, no morgage, get job driving a digger, or pulling some pints, go fishing hunting, 4*4. Shyte as I moved the housing market collapsed, exchange rates went the wrong way, accountant screwed me, ended up back at the bottom. Had join the rat race again. Have done OK in NZ, but had to sacifice time with the kids, to give the kids what I did not have.
Kid are leaving home and NZ, they are moving to Aus (Gold coast). Time to look at life again?????
If you are looking for refrigeration which is interesting, technically challanging and gives you travel oppotunities, look at companies that manufacture "Freeze driers" or "Solvent recovery systems"

[lawrence1]

Gary,
well said and very true

[Quality]

Yes very wise those gary and true

[desA]

If you walk down a road long enough, it becomes your road. Love it or hate it... it's what you do.

Sooner or later the honeymoon is over and you show up for work every day because they pay you.

If you're looking for answers to the midlife crisis, I don't have any. I'm retired and still going through it. Still not sure what I want to do when I grow up.

Very good. :D

I've often found myself in the new road-building business - blazing a trail into the blue yonder. Get to the end & someone else ends up owning the road. It wears thin.

[paul_h]

Sooner or later the honeymoon is over and you show up for work every day because they pay you.
"they" meaning myself?
I started out on big interesting stuff, but the pay was too low, so I quit and started a degree.
I lost interest in that because I spend my off time indoors at a PC, why would I want to do that for a job? Also pay rates went up a lot in the industry and I like being out and about.
So I took the first job that was offered, small a/c and refrig and did that for 5 years.
Then I thought, now that I know all this stuff, and hardly anyone else does, and it's easy to do this type of stuff with little capital and do it myself, I'd become self employed and have been for over 3 years.
So I don't show up everyday because someone pays me, I make it happen.
Pretty hard to make it happen when I don't have much interest in it anymore, mainly for lifestyle choices I mentioned before, can't afford a house in a city, and I'm not an office worker or reliant on someone else for employment anyway, so I don't need to pay the premium rent or house prices. I can make it happen and live anywhere that has refrig or a/c customers. Greater range of choices if I go to refrig as that's more prevalent even in cooler climates.
So I'll probably be moving out of the city in a year, so looking at closing shop and getting into refrig experience by working for a refrig company for a year before I either restart my business as a refrig business, or move to a cheaper place to live that stil has lots of decent refrig employment.

edit: I still work on standard refrig every week as far as commercial coolrooms, freezers etc, just not supermarket or industrial.

[Gary]

Back in my teens, I took an aptitude test in an effort to figure out what I should do in life. I aced the test across the board in every category. While at first blush this may seem like a good thing, it defeats the entire purpose of the test. So... I've pretty much wandered through life from one interest to the next, most of it within the HVACR industry. It's a very wide road with many lanes.

In the course of my wanderings, I have found two things that I absolutely suck at and now avoid like the plague, i.e. running a business and selling things. It takes a particularly poor salesman to go belly up selling a product that gets rave reviews from the customers, but I did it... twice.

Seems my specialty is losing interest and moving on. I don't know if this helps you, but it's nice to know that there are others who share my specialty. :)

[tommy_trane]

Paul
Had you thought of coming to Sydney? You like the big stuff and have BMS experience - Dalkia (Trane, Trend and Tracer) has some of the biggest stuff I've seen one plant with 7 of the biggest chillers in Ausi and two complete BMS systems. I worked there for nearly 2 years until redundancy. Most of my work was in air conditioned space, but I had virtually no overtime or call outs (which I wanted). I rent and live less than 5 km from the CBD and the cost of rent isn't too bad but I could not afford to buy of course. In saying that I am open to the right job in Adelaide or Melbourne. I lived in Melbourne before and loved it - the people are down to earth and lots of interesting stuff to do with the family, where Sydney is a bit expensive to go out in the week end. Hence we plan overseas trips to keep the wife happy and give me a break.


Been to Global Switch have we mate?...
Try punching 1200 tubes on each of the chillers haha

[coolstuf]

Ha, ha

Nice one Gary,

Totally agree with you. Running a successful business does not always have a lot to do with intelligence. The most difficult thing in life is to know what you are crap at, and to be honest about it.