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RONB
12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
I have just booked my F Gas course. For a three day course its costing me over 500.I know the qualification is nessesary for me to continue doing my job, which I have been doing for almost 30 years. But on the enrolment form for the college it has a list for the fee to be waverd. If I was in prison,on the dole,16 to 18 learner,asylum seeker etc,the course is free. After working and paying tax etc for 30 years it realy pi--es me off to think that if I was on the dole ect all the training I would ever need would be free and paid for by the tax payer. (you and I). So if you dont want to cough up over 500 for your course go on the dole for a couple of weeks and get it all for free.

Grizzly
12-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Ron.
I sympathise but the subject of F gas ECT. Has been well discussed in the past. With many of us expressing similar views as yours.
However if some of the opinions now being expressed where only those "Ticketed" (within the U.K. at least) will be able to purchase refrigerant.
Then its a start!
We will at least have a benchmark from which to start.
Grizzly

cool runings
12-12-2010, 09:33 PM
I have just booked my F Gas course. For a three day course its costing me over 500.I know the qualification is nessesary for me to continue doing my job, which I have been doing for almost 30 years. But on the enrolment form for the college it has a list for the fee to be waverd. If I was in prison,on the dole,16 to 18 learner,asylum seeker etc,the course is free. After working and paying tax etc for 30 years it realy pi--es me off to think that if I was on the dole ect all the training I would ever need would be free and paid for by the tax payer. (you and I). So if you dont want to cough up over 500 for your course go on the dole for a couple of weeks and get it all for free.


If you are right then I think it is somthing that the individual college is doing.

Fgas is a mandatory qualification and therefore is not covered by any funding from the government.

So if you are right and if you read the course info correctly (check that it is not just a statement sent
with all pre course paperwork), the college is doing it as a loss leader to get you in.

Sort of like a supermarket doing a three for the price of one deal. Colleges are struggling and they have had a lot of funding pulled....

They need bums on seats like everyone else.

All the best

coolrunnings

.

RONB
13-12-2010, 09:25 AM
I totaly agree with what you are saying Grizzly.But what realy grates on me is that anyone can go and do this course. Say someone dose a 3 month training course and it includes the F gas exam,hey presto they can legaly go out and do our job that we have trained and gained years of expirience in.The piont im trying to make is that the powers that be should take into account the ammount of expirience the canditate has had in the trade before they can even sit the exam. There is an awful lot of nasty stuff we have to deal with, and this expirience in the trade is essential because someone somewhere is going to get hurt. Just imagine a rookie going to a transcritical CO2 plant and thinking "ive got my Fgas SO I can now work on this " and blowing them selves up.

r.bartlett
13-12-2010, 10:00 AM
I totaly agree with what you are saying Grizzly.But what realy grates on me is that anyone can go and do this course. Say someone dose a 3 month training course and it includes the F gas exam,hey presto they can legaly go out and do our job that we have trained and gained years of expirience in.The piont im trying to make is that the powers that be should take into account the ammount of expirience the canditate has had in the trade before they can even sit the exam. There is an awful lot of nasty stuff we have to deal with, and this expirience in the trade is essential because someone somewhere is going to get hurt. Just imagine a rookie going to a transcritical CO2 plant and thinking "ive got my Fgas SO I can now work on this " and blowing them selves up.

The trade is it's early day's of regulation. Of course the g.ment and certain training centres are not helping matters with regard to quality as some are guaranteeing a pass for the fee.. .

Basically I see meal travelling down the snake and a lot can see that once this huge rush has passed then it will be back to the same old same old

Therefore a lot have jumped onto this bandwagon as an easy get rich quick scheme. The trainers have been creaming it and quite frankly some of the course charges have been bordering on racketeering
However There is still a reluctance to get the 2079 and a lot of providers out there touting. Therefore it's supply and demand.

As it stands I cannot see more than 50% getting the qualification by July next and no one can know what effect that will have on the industry....

I wonder if there will be a stay of execution for those not yet registered as they simply do not have the man power, money, will or commitment to police it at the level required.

RONB
13-12-2010, 10:39 AM
If 2079 is mandatory,surely the powers that be should be given a register of qualified personell (eg Gas Safe).And anyone without the qualification can not work on any refrigeration plant which is coverd by 2079,which is what is stated in the rules. But as you say policing it is a hard thing to do.And if there may be a stay of execution all the companies/engineers that have no doubt spent thousands of pounds on 2079 should either get a refund of the money or get all the work that the non qualified can not do.

r.bartlett
13-12-2010, 11:19 AM
If 2079 is mandatory,surely the powers that be should be given a register of qualified personell (eg Gas Safe).And anyone without the qualification can not work on any refrigeration plant which is coverd by 2079,which is what is stated in the rules. But as you say policing it is a hard thing to do.And if there may be a stay of execution all the companies/engineers that have no doubt spent thousands of pounds on 2079 should either get a refund of the money or get all the work that the non qualified can not do.

One supplier I spoke to recently stated they had several customers who had not got safe handling or 2078 and won't get 2079 either.. There will always be a % on the edge who will not get regulated or for the foreseeable future not get caught either.

The big boy's and high profile clients will keep to the register others will play the game and go for the cheapest price irrespective

One of our clients is part of a hotel chain. They have insisted on the air con inspection before the jan deadline, the place next door is "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it " (or rather when we get caught)approach..I was quite surprised as they are high profile but it's a management decision they have made ...

I believe F-Gas 2079 will need 10 years to settle down before we're at the 'Gassafe' level of commitment

cool runings
13-12-2010, 11:50 AM
I wonder if there will be a stay of execution for those not yet registered as they simply do not have the man power, money, will or commitment to police it at the level required.


I can't see there being a "stay of execution" as you put it.

Fgas was supposed to come into force in 2009 but was extended to 2011.

We are already in an extension period.

coolrunnings

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cool runings
13-12-2010, 11:57 AM
If 2079 is mandatory,surely the powers that be should be given a register of qualified personell (eg Gas Safe).And anyone without the qualification can not work on any refrigeration plant which is coverd by 2079,which is what is stated in the rules. But as you say policing it is a hard thing to do.And if there may be a stay of execution all the companies/engineers that have no doubt spent thousands of pounds on 2079 should either get a refund of the money or get all the work that the non qualified can not do.


It will happen given time but it has to be done in the correct order.

Enforcement could only be done if there was a compulsory register, that can only come after the 2011 cut off date.

The gas industry have been trying to police CORGI and now Gas Safe for more than 40 years, they have only just got
to a position where you can't buy a boiler over the counter with out a card.

But companies like NRS allow you to have an acount with Plumb centre or drain centre and with that account you can
buy a gas boiler without Gas Safe status.

If the gas industry can't get it right after 40 years why would you expect the fridge trade to be able to in less than 5.

coolrunnings

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pontiac7
25-01-2011, 07:57 PM
Got my 2079 passed this week. But cannot believe we only get a certificate and not a photo card like CSCS or PASMA etc.
As you all said already this stops no one doing it illegally unless caught.
One A/C engineer i know who works for himself commented that "if the exam is that hard, i can always bung another engineer a few quid to pose as me to get through. With that i find out off an examiner that he knows of nothing in place to prevent this.
So what a PISS TAKE it all is !!!!

charlie patt
25-01-2011, 08:42 PM
done our j11 november 09 and it was a joke one of the guys on the course could not even flare but he passed and if regulation is there what about the ac inspections less than a 7 percent take up with our customers and who is enforceing it, regulation is fine but who is waveing the big stick?

cool runings
25-01-2011, 11:56 PM
done our j11 november 09 and it was a joke one of the guys on the course could not even flare but he passed and if regulation is there what about the ac inspections less than a 7 percent take up with our customers and who is enforceing it, regulation is fine but who is waveing the big stick?


.

But what are you doing about it.

You say that the person on your course could not flare.

If that is true why did you not say somthing.

CITB would love to hear what you have to say.

Don't do it then moan afterwards.
You are as much to blame as the college / training centre.

We are the only ones who will make this work.

Don't sit back and ignor, then moan about it.


coolrunnings

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charlie patt
26-01-2011, 09:44 PM
i rung the training provider who was running the course it did not feel right but something had to be done i asked for feedback but got nothing back i made sure that no one else that i new went there

chilliwilly
26-01-2011, 11:31 PM
I think this is typical of colleges and private classrooms, (not all of them). If the course curriculum provider pulls the franchise from them, they will suffer financially themsleves. I will say it again, F gas, EPA, and any other organisition that shows the environmental red card to CFCs and the like, are there to make money, not to save the environment.

:off topic:

It has yet to be proved 100% that global warming is caused by mans actions on the planet. In a test tube or a cowjar in a lab, it all adds up 100%. But in the real world there are other constants and variables that are overlooked in the lab, and wouldn't add up if they were included.