changing your terms and conditions

[fowlie]

does anybody know for sure if your emloyer can change your overtime rates without giving you 30 days notice.as i cannot get a simple yes or no answer from reading gov information regarding emloyment law.
any info would be greatly appreciated

[Brian_UK]

Direct.Gov seems to say that it can only be by collective agreement.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10028079

Might also be worth checking with ACAS.

[fowlie]

ta brian checked that website suspect my employer is trying to pull a fast one.will try acas and see what they say

[sedgy]

hi fowlie,
no they are not allowed to change your contract of enployment,
but have you got one? a lot of engineers are that thankfull to get a job , that they dont ask for all the items agreed in the interview to be put in writing , stick to it matey

[smoggy]

i would see if you can get some free legal advice.I was told by a solicitor,that alot of contracts have itemsthat are not legal,but companies put them into the contract because most people will never question it and will do it cos they think they have to.If your company says its legal to change your terms i would look into it,(they proberbley cant) why dont a few of you club together and pay for advice,you will be better off if you all stick together,divide and conquer and all that

[Grizzly]

does anybody know for sure if your employer can change your overtime rates without giving you 30 days notice.as i cannot get a simple yes or no answer from reading gov information regarding emloyment law.
any info would be greatly appreciated

I sincerely hope you get a sensible answer as there are many more of us that are having terms and conditions eroded for various reasons.
Personally I blame the Employment Agencies (Sorry FM Companies)
After all any Pratt can undercut a contact. Look good in the process. The rest are then left to deal with what's left.
So good luck in your quest and Please Keep us informed.
Grizzly

[Brian_UK]

There is also a fair amount of information on Citizens Advice
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_money/employment.htm

[Abe]

does anybody know for sure if your emloyer can change your overtime rates without giving you 30 days notice.as i cannot get a simple yes or no answer from reading gov information regarding emloyment law.
any info would be greatly appreciated

An employer cannot change your contractual overtime rates without varying the contract.

To vary a contract there must be consideration, ie, something given in exchange to you for you to agree to a change.

If they make any deductions in your pay without first complying with the above, then the deduction will be unlawful and you have a right to challenge.

Regards

[DTLarca]

What if the contract stated something to the effect that overtime rates may change from time time in response to market pressures etc?

[Abe]

What if the contract stated something to the effect that overtime rates may change from time time in response to market pressures etc?

The employer can vary a contract if:

The power to vary would be limited to changes of a minor and non-fundamental nature only.

The authority is:
In United Association for the Protection of Trade v Kilburn (17 September 1985, EAT 787/84) the EAT considered the following term in an employee handbook which was incorporated into the contract of employment:

I do not consider changing overtime rates to be either "minor or non fundamental"


You could of course vary by consent. But if the overtime rate is going down, will you want to give consent? I would say no.

On the same token you are not going to object if the overtime payments are going up and you will consent to a variation

If there is NO CONSENT and the employer makes a unilateral change this will be a breach.

If the Employer persists in varying the contract then you have the following remedy:

Constructive dismissal and a claim for damages
Claim for a breach of thre implied trust and confidence you are owed by the employer


You could accept the new term , continue working and still claim, or you could continue working under protest and bring a claim against the employer.


Lastly.

If the Employer imposes this change, and remunerates you according to the change, then this will amount to an unlawful deduction of your wage.

Hope that answers your question

[DTLarca]

I do not consider changing overtime rates to be either "minor or non fundamental"

Even if it is stated in the contract that overtime rates can vary from time to time Dependant on economic forces?

[Grizzly]

Thanks for the valued advise Abe.
I was hoping you would be able to respond.
Grizzly

[Abe]

Even if it is stated in the contract that overtime rates can vary from time to time Dependant on economic forces?

Pay is a fundamental aspect of any contract. If you allowed variations every employer will want to fluctuate in line with economic trends.

Money or level of payments is not something you would want to "play around with" The courts take a very dim view of any attempt to pay less than what is contractual.

Any clause which seeks to adjust overtime pay stating the employer consents can be struck out.

[DTLarca]

Any clause which seeks to adjust overtime pay stating the employer consents can be struck out.

Interesting. You are probably right. I might be remembering terms in my old contracts that stated the duty to perform overtime now and then would be required depending on economic pressures. I might be remembering wrong.

[fowlie]

thanks for that abe,
if ive got this right if my employer changes my terms of pay without my agrement i would need to register my opposition to this or by not saying anything would mean i accepted the changes

[Abe]

thanks for that abe,
if ive got this right if my employer changes my terms of pay without my agrement i would need to register my opposition to this or by not saying anything would mean i accepted the changes

Your employer "cannot" change your terms without your prior agreement or consent.

If you consent to the change there must be some consideration for the change, ie: can be payment of monies, or some other benefit that you will agree to.

If the employer changes and you accept these changes, then it does not "necessarily" mean you have consented, see the case I referred to in my earlier posting.

I would tell the employer that you have no choice to carry on working for him , however you do not accept or consent to the change.

If the Employer insists on effecting the change, I would see advice towards lodging a claim with the ETS. ( Employment Tribunal Service)

Your claim would be based on:

Fundamental change to your contract
Breach of trust and confidence

Regards

[Abe]

Thanks for the valued advise Abe.
I was hoping you would be able to respond.
Grizzly

Grizz

Always happy to assist. I consider every member of RAC as part of my family.

:D

[Grizzly]

Grizz

Always happy to assist. I consider every member of RAC as part of my family.

:D


You must indeed have big shoulders then my friend!
:D

I like you philosophy all the same.
Grizzly