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Temprite
01-07-2005, 11:47 AM
I use a Javac Tek mate leak detector.

This is probably about an average type of leak detector.

One thing I notice about it is that it seems to have more trouble finding leaks with 404a and 134a than r12 and r22.I have once replaced the sensor in it when it had no sensitivity and it then functioned ok.

A few days ago I had a leak in an evaporator which I located with soapy water but the leak detector couldn't find it at all.(Refrigerant was 404a).

Do any other members have similar problems and does anyone have any suggestions of a leak detector that is equally sensative to all gasses.

Thanks in advance.

chemi-cool
01-07-2005, 01:15 PM
Hi Temprite,

Just purchased a nice one by Mastercool.

Works with all the gases.

http://www.mastercool.com/homepage.html

Chemi :)

Latte
01-07-2005, 01:42 PM
Tech mate is probably one of the best ones that are easily available over here. I have had a couple of both been very good although you do have to change the sensors regually.

The trouble is with R404 that it has 134 in it and is historically a pain to leakcheck. I don't know why, i'm not a chemist but 134 seems to be the most troublesome gas of them all.

Regards

Fatboy

gosully
04-07-2005, 03:49 PM
We have always had a problem detecting leaks with 134a, and we have just converted to testing with Nitrogen. Its fantastic.

Vincent Yu
06-07-2005, 05:07 PM
Gosully,

Could you tell me in detail how to use Nitrogen for leak detection? Do you mean charging high pressure Nitrogen in the system and testing the pressure drop?

Thanks

Snowman123
06-07-2005, 06:41 PM
:) RE nitrogen, yes its the best way of finding small leaks. Can use a leak detector or the spray type. R134a and other blends are a job to find at times. Make sure its oxygen free nitro. Or you'll end up with a explosion. Oxygen and oil don't mix.

rbartlett
06-07-2005, 08:28 PM
i have researched electronic leak testers up down and sideways and the absolute best was the yokahama /Bacharach

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10g.htm

however it's quite dear and not that 'handy'

however this model seems closer-

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10xpro.htm

I bought one of these from Bacharach uk in leamington spa in when I needed to get something decent for an engineer checking a couple of carrier chillers retro'ed to 407c which leaked

however my personal favourite way is still a wee dram of R22 and 500 psig nitrogen and the trusty old 'blue' flame-yes,yes I know but it NEVER fails to find the leak !!

cheers

richard

Latte
06-07-2005, 09:26 PM
Hi Guys,

I see Fosters are now leak checking their units with helium.

Anyone else out there tried it, would like to hear of any instances where leaks have not been picked up with OFN but picked up with helium.

I am assuming helium is more expensive than OFN, is this correct.

Regards

Fatboy

Temprite
07-07-2005, 01:24 PM
Javac D tek select is meant to be pretty good with blends but I think it is quite expensive.

Anyone out there use one of these?

Abe
07-07-2005, 08:34 PM
Well, are any kindred souls willing to divulge how best to check for leaks using OFN.

Seems the assumption is...........What > You dont know????

Ermmm..............sheepish look.................errmm Yesss !!

Please help !!!
:)

chemi-cool
07-07-2005, 09:44 PM
Raymond,
Helium is more expensive, cause there is less of it in the air and it cost more to separate it from the air.

Abe, if you mix a bit of Helium with OFN, you most likely to find smaller holes in the system, The molecular structure is smaller.

Many electronic leak detectors, will go for Helium.
Chemi :)

Temprite
23-08-2005, 11:09 AM
however this model seems closer-

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10xpro.htm

I bought one of these from Bacharach uk in leamington spa in when I needed to get something decent for an engineer checking a couple of carrier chillers retro'ed to 407c which leaked

richard
Any members use these type of leak detectors?
If so how good is their operation?

Thanks in advance.

Temprite
24-08-2005, 10:58 AM
Got a price today from a supplier in Australia for yokogawa h10x pro
$900-00:eek:

Something definetly not right.
I can buy three tek mates for that price.

Price for same leak detector on American internet site.
190.00us

tonto
24-08-2005, 02:27 PM
temprite, had a javac tek mate also a while back not a bad unit, until I had dramas with it javac back up support on their parts are useless, dont seem to care about there customers, in the end the repair price was about 100 dollars less than a new one, in the end I brought a tif ZX1 bit pricey but damn good leak detector, and if I send it away for repairs the supplier said they would lend theirs while mine was getting fixed cant beat that for service...

Temprite
24-08-2005, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the reply tonto.

I am in the market for a new leak detector and I am not going to part with the cash this time unless I am sure that it will be something good. TIF ZX-1 was one of the brands that I was considering.

rbartlett
13-10-2005, 08:01 AM
Got a price today from a supplier in Australia for yokogawa h10x pro
$900-00:eek:

Something definetly not right.
I can buy three tek mates for that price.

Price for same leak detector on American internet site.
190.00us


just bought one !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4580295866&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AMT%3A12

look at the price I paid too ;-))

shipping 5 days +32 dollars

cheers

richard

mcr
13-10-2005, 08:14 AM
i have a SPX robinair 16600 hand held leak detector that would "detect" a leak, but if i use soapy water there appears to be no leak at all - the settings on the detector are correct ( sensing level 2 for r-22) -which one is more reliable the leak tester or the soapy water ? HELP !!!

Temprite
13-10-2005, 08:54 AM
G'day Richard

Nice buy, I wonder if he has another for sale.

At present I am using one of our apprentices tek mates, so I havent been thinking about it. He cant find leaks anyway so he wont miss it;) :D

The only concern for shipping one internationally is what happens if you have a warranty issue? Will local suppliers honour the warranty?

I'm not buying one from australia at that over inflated price.

I would be interested to see how well it works.

Regards.

Temprite
13-10-2005, 08:59 AM
G'day mcr

Soapy water is definetly more reliable, but leak detectors are an necesary evil.

Use leak detector to get a general idea of where the leak is and pinpoint it with soapy water.

Regards.

mcr
13-10-2005, 09:11 AM
G'day mcr

Soapy water is definetly more reliable, but leak detectors are an necesary evil.

Use leak detector to get a general idea of where the leak is and pinpoint it with soapy water.

Regards.

Thanks Temprite, I was just wondering if the detector was just a little bit too sensitive or there may have been some residue left on the joints, because the soapy water isnt showing any leak at all and the pressure inside the vessel is around 140-150- PSI .

Cofreth
13-10-2005, 05:20 PM
How about using a leak trace detector? It dye the compressor oil into red color,any leak in the system will emit the color of the red oil.Manufactured from the same factory as Thawzone.

malik55
13-10-2005, 07:24 PM
There is controversy over dye tracers, some says not to use and some says there is no harm, I prefer to use other methods as most of the leaks can find with old traditional methods.

mcr
14-10-2005, 01:46 AM
hi guys !

Is there such a thing as a "tolerable" leakage in the system ? I mean with the sheer number of joints and welds in a system and factoring in the vibrations, temp changes, etc. would it be reasonable to assume that there is no such thing as a 100% sealed system ?

US Iceman
14-10-2005, 04:15 AM
I for one do not buy the idea of tolerable leaks. I cannot accept the premise that any leak is acceptable.

Some can very difficult to find, and once found, difficult to repair. :(

The "things" that cause leaks can, or should be addressed during the installation.

Good brazing practices and joint preparation can be done.

Small lines or capillary tubes for pressure controls can be securely mounted to protect against vibration.

Proper piping practices/installation techniques can reduce pipe vibration or wear by abrasion.

I think we should strive to reduce the potential for leaks as much as we possibly can.

However, even with our best efforts, leaks will eventually occur. Finding them can be an art sometimes.

Electronic detectors are nice, but it is hard to beat a halide torch and soap bubbles. Or, nitrogen and soap bubbles. Sometimes the old methods are just as good as the new ones.

No batteries required!

typ
16-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Good question spend my working hours with leak detection system mostly fixed system.
Some of you fridge guys make the same mistakes when using electronic hand held detectors
1: Don't read the instruction.:confused:
2: Don't look after your equipment.:o
Most electronic hand held detectors use some form of Metal Oxide sensor. These require calibration and are not gas percific.
Also have a short life-span. (Approx 80 hours use.) Batterys will only recharge a x amount of times. And don't switch them on in the area of the gas leak as they warm-up and calibrate to the back ground levels, therefore reducing sencitive. Also why R134a is a b*%$@"d to find is because it has a very small moloculer structure and will leak where others won't. Thats why the guys doing car air cons making a fortune. Leaks from the shaft seal.

Not pushing our own produce;) but the new De-Tec Select
uses Infra-red. Sensors last 10x longer and is know selective for R404a R22 R134a and most common refrigeration gases.

Know fixed systems that's a complete different world.
lets just say I'm extremely busy for some of the big boys in the UK bit of name dropping now:D P&O Cruises, Tesco, 3663 Distrubution, Gest, Carrier, MOD. All ripping systems and installing ours. And I'm not going to name drop as I'm only a field engineer. and I don't get paid for selling??:rolleyes:

frank
16-10-2005, 07:21 PM
Some of you fridge gays make the same mistakes
Not me mate - I'm as straight as a die :D

Thats why the gays doing car air cons making a fortune.
I think this comment is directed at you Karl :D :D

No offense TYP :)

typ
16-10-2005, 07:25 PM
thats what I get for not spell checking

frank
16-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Hi TYP

If we didn't laugh we'd all end up crying :)

Don't take it personally mate - it just seemed rather funny to me :D

Abe
16-10-2005, 07:48 PM
Frank

Typ made a typo.......

frank
16-10-2005, 07:52 PM
Hi Abe

I know that and could see the funny side. I wasn't taking the P***. I hope I haven't offended TYP

2002kahuna
17-10-2005, 01:53 PM
I use a trace charge of R-22 (1oz.) and dry nitrogen. Run system pressure up to 200 pounds with nitrogen.
Also I have purchased a TIF ZX-1. Best leak detector I've used so far. Only problem is original battery is a NiCad and requires frequent recharging after a few times of use. TIF knows of this and is marketing a new replacement battery that is much more depenable and holds it's charge better when stored.

Steve Wright
17-10-2005, 02:54 PM
What is OFN?

This question might make me a fool for 10 minuates.

Steve

2002kahuna
17-10-2005, 03:29 PM
Believe OFN is oxyegen free nitrogen. I've always heard and called it dry nitrogen.

rbartlett
22-10-2005, 09:31 AM
G'day Richard

Nice buy, I wonder if he has another for sale.

At present I am using one of our apprentices tek mates, so I havent been thinking about it. He cant find leaks anyway so he wont miss it;) :D

The only concern for shipping one internationally is what happens if you have a warranty issue? Will local suppliers honour the warranty?

I'm not buying one from australia at that over inflated price.

I would be interested to see how well it works.it comes with a 110v charger but I just used a universal 220/12v chqrger and the batts charged a-okay

Regards.

well it arrived safe and sound so if you want one

I shall now put it to the test as and when ;-))

cheers

richard

Jason
22-12-2005, 07:17 AM
We have been using the standard Yokagawa (now Bacharach) H10 for well over 5 years. It may not have the best battery life or portability but it is the best for large applications such as supermarkets. We tried the H10X several years ago but had very poor results. We now have a couple of the new D-TEK selects which seem to work ok when there working. Both of them have had to be sent in for repair in less than 1year. The H10 is still the tried and true. Our company buys each employee one once you have been there a year.

evaporator
22-12-2005, 08:00 AM
i have researched electronic leak testers up down and sideways and the absolute best was the yokahama /Bacharach

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10g.htm

however it's quite dear and not that 'handy'

however this model seems closer-

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10xpro.htm

I bought one of these from Bacharach uk in leamington spa in when I needed to get something decent for an engineer checking a couple of carrier chillers retro'ed to 407c which leaked

however my personal favourite way is still a wee dram of R22 and 500 psig nitrogen and the trusty old 'blue' flame-yes,yes I know but it NEVER fails to find the leak !!

cheers

richardnice one richard
anyone who is shall we say "old school", knows the only way to easily find leaks is a sniff of 22 with ofn, but modern training just says use leak detectors which i find can only point you in the right direction with modern gases. if you get to close to a leak they stop beeping, i am told this is because they measure a percentage of different molecules in the air and can only read one when the area is saturated with refrigerant. thus the old way is still best which gives you a nice mix of gases:)

evaporator
22-12-2005, 08:14 AM
hi guys !

Is there such a thing as a "tolerable" leakage in the system ? I mean with the sheer number of joints and welds in a system and factoring in the vibrations, temp changes, etc. would it be reasonable to assume that there is no such thing as a 100% sealed system ? hi mcr
over here we are notto charge a system that has any leaks as this would result in venting.
although a service manager did tell me once i can charge a trailor that is loaded to save the load if it is impossible to get it transhipped to another.
but i never have, i say let the insurance worry about the load not the guy trying to do his job.
always pressure test for leaks if ok then use your tor guage, seems to work for me:)

evaporator
22-12-2005, 08:25 AM
:)


Not pushing our own produce;) but the new De-Tec Select
uses Infra-red. Sensors last 10x longer and is know selective for R404a R22 R134a and most common refrigeration gases.

Know fixed systems that's a complete different world.
lets just say I'm extremely busy for some of the big boys in the UK bit of name dropping now:D P&O Cruises, Tesco, 3663 Distrubution, Gest, Carrier, MOD. All ripping systems and installing ours. And I'm not going to name drop as I'm only a field engineer. and I don't get paid for selling??:rolleyes:hi typ
reliable fixed leak detectors ? surely all engineers that carry refrigerant should/could have these fitted inside there vehicles ?

evaporator
22-12-2005, 08:32 AM
i have a SPX robinair 16600 hand held leak detector that would "detect" a leak, but if i use soapy water there appears to be no leak at all - the settings on the detector are correct ( sensing level 2 for r-22) -which one is more reliable the leak tester or the soapy water ? HELP !!!Hi mcr
no bubbles would mean no leak to me

evaporator
22-12-2005, 08:35 AM
Thanks Temprite, I was just wondering if the detector was just a little bit too sensitive or there may have been some residue left on the joints, because the soapy water isnt showing any leak at all and the pressure inside the vessel is around 140-150- PSI .hi mcr
try your leak detector on someones breath who has just smoked, your find most go off and yet there is no refrigerant:confused:

Lazarus
24-12-2005, 02:24 PM
Call me old fashioned but give me a little garden spray bottle of soapy water anytime......... preferably the green fairy stuff.... its better for your hands :) and it works with R717 ............

abdulazman
30-12-2005, 08:29 PM
i have researched electronic leak testers up down and sideways and the absolute best was the yokahama /Bacharach

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10g.htm

however it's quite dear and not that 'handy'

however this model seems closer-

http://www.bacharach-inc.com/h10xpro.htm

I bought one of these from Bacharach uk in leamington spa in when I needed to get something decent for an engineer checking a couple of carrier chillers retro'ed to 407c which leaked

however my personal favourite way is still a wee dram of R22 and 500 psig nitrogen and the trusty old 'blue' flame-yes,yes I know but it NEVER fails to find the leak !!

cheers

richard


I'll agree with you Richard, I f dun it lots of time and it never fails. Personally recommends r22 as tracer.
Happy New Year to all you guys.

RickSter
06-11-2006, 06:13 AM
I have one of those TIF ZX 1 detectors purchased from the States .
They are a fantastic detector and cheap. The only hiccup is the charging unit which is 110 Volts. Easy to get pass with the correct tranny.

I take it back. Mine just stopped working for no apparant reason. If you buy a cheap one off Ebay, it's a fair bet that it is a reconditioned one.

I'm now using a Yellow Jacket Heated Probe unit. Not cheap but it works pretty good.

rbartlett
06-11-2006, 01:12 PM
I have one of those TIF ZX 1 detectors purchased from the States .
They are a fantastic detector and cheap. The only hiccup is the charging unit which is 110 Volts. Easy to get pass with the correct tranny.


You must be in Sydney !!

Cheers

Richard

petervdb
12-11-2006, 12:06 PM
Hi Guys,

I see Fosters are now leak checking their units with helium.

Anyone else out there tried it, would like to hear of any instances where leaks have not been picked up with OFN but picked up with helium.

I am assuming helium is more expensive than OFN, is this correct.

Regards

Fatboy
we use helium when we leaktesting large machines and it is the best testing method because helium has the smallest molecules of all gasses and it is a inert gas the cost are higher dan testing with nitro

RickSter
16-11-2006, 09:36 AM
Sunny Brisbane ,Queensland :-)

Raycon
19-11-2006, 05:58 PM
I have used the Javac tek mate was ok for R22 not much else. I changed to the javac detek its good for R22 but struggles with R404a and R134a the big draw back is the amount of times you have to change the sensors (40 a time). I now have the javac detek select, the best one yet really good for R404a and you don't need to change the sensors very often. But as with most of the previous comments, you can't beat the old method of pressure testing.

Packman
21-11-2006, 09:06 AM
Re Helium - you can use ballon gas grade but you will need a helium leak checker with sniffer attachment to go with it, talking about serious cost US$10 to 15k, also not the most portable. Typically used in factory for manufacture of sealed systems (I used to sell them if you really want to know more zzzzzzzzzz)

ART KUHN
21-11-2006, 09:04 PM
I've worked with d-tek and i think it's the best i've ever used also avalable for CO2

Regads Art

Dan
22-11-2006, 12:30 AM
I am in the market for a new leak detector and I am not going to part with the cash this time unless I am sure that it will be something good. TIF ZX-1 was one of the brands that I was considering.

We have just discovered the new TIF leak detector and find it to be a cut above the others. The trick is to alter the sensitivity with all electronics, and TIF has a friendly way about it. Sometimes you have to just step outside and reset and go back at it. I can't recall the exact model I am using, but it finds hfc leaks where the detek and others cannot. I also find very useful an ultra-sonic detector. It will pick up the leak often when soap bubbles fail, such as at the lower section of a cap tube.

Temprite
22-11-2006, 12:20 PM
Ended up buying a TEK mate again. But next time a leak detector goes down probably will try the TIF ZX-1.

TEK mate is best value for money but has poor sensitivity for HFC's.

ART KUHN
22-11-2006, 04:01 PM
Hi Dan

ultra sonic is nice but only in a quit enviorment

Art

Rajesh Kashyap
25-11-2008, 11:45 AM
Can anyone tell the method to convert annual leak rate ( gm/annum) to rate of Pressure drop (Pa/min) during leak testing of R134a at 10 bar.

RickSter
19-07-2009, 10:03 AM
Brisbane !!

Daisy63
18-08-2010, 04:15 PM
I found with the tekmate you just need to replace the sensors about once a year or purchase a sensor for the blended gases.