Would it work

[bernard]

Hi there

Had call at the weekend to a pack shutting down on H.P.
The pack condenser was in stalled in the plant room and the ambient temperature was 40 c.The customer will be having a secondary condenser fitted outside soon.

On the other side of the plant room is a freezer cold room,do you think it would be possible to install a second liquid line in parallel with the exsisting one via a hp switch and soliniod valve and run it through the freezer cold room,this but will never happen but would it work.This is for my interest only.

Regards Bernard

[benijoseph]

Hi there

Had call at the weekend to a pack shutting down on H.P.
The pack condenser was in stalled in the plant room and the ambient temperature was 40 c.The customer will be having a secondary condenser fitted outside soon.

On the other side of the plant room is a freezer cold room,do you think it would be possible to install a second liquid line in parallel with the exsisting one via a hp switch and soliniod valve and run it through the freezer cold room,this but will never happen but would it work.This is for my interest only.

Regards Bernard

MR, Ber.
I think idea is excellent , But at the same time think of ice cream kept in freezer room?

beni joseph.

[bernard]

Hi Benji joseph

Yes I do agree espesially if its that dam soft scoop ice cream but thats another story..
The extra heat load could cause the freezer to ice up,how would i be able to work out the heat load per meter of pipe.Once again this is only theoretical.

Regards Bernard

[gerryboy00]

you will subcool the liquid , pressure will stay the same.

[chemi-cool]

Hi Bernard,

I agree with gerryboy00, it looks like the only problem of this unit is the location of the condenser.
Must be bad design.

When the design is bad, I would look for other "funny" ideas.

Chemi :)

[Latte]

Hi Bernard

:D Welcome to the world of a Pack engineer ;)

Every year we get onto this subject, packs over here are just no designed to work once the ambient gets over 30 degree's.

Usually, stores empty freezers into coldrooms, you then shut off a couple of cases, go to B&Q and get a garden sprinkler to place under the condensers and start up again. Obviously as soon as you get there you can reset the pack if the freezers are clear are get them up and running one at a time.

There is not a single supermarket chain that doesn't have this problem during the heat. Tesco,Sainsburys,Morrisons,Somerfield and co-op all have stores that will have to have sprinklers fitted

Its June, only 3 more months of summer to go :D

Regards

Fatboy

[Peter_1]

Indeed Gerryboy, it will subcool.
What we have done in the past is fitted a water cooled plate HE and a water regulating valve (pressure sensed) between the compressor and condensor.
A HP switch opens a water valve and precools the discharge gasses.
You will be surpised how small this HE can be to help in these warm days.

[bernard]

Hi Peter

So would it not be possible then to run a discharge line through the freezer in parallel with the present line controlled by h.p switch and sol valve.

Regards Bernard

P.S. sometime back Peter you were doing a project involving an a/c installation and a fish pond ,how did it work out.

[Peter_1]

I agree it will work when running teh discharge line through the freezer but this will be an additional load for the freezer.

The fish pond: we started it up without any problems and with the warm days these days, we benefit now from this huge condenser. It was in fact to large, we could have made it a lot smaller

1. Condensor made on the floor besides the pond. We used foam floates before we let it sink to th bottom (depth +/- 3 feet)
2. Disharge lines coming out the building going in the water
3. View compressors from behind
4. Front view
5. Picture of a part of the pond.

[rbartlett]

peter i sent you a pm about insulation i asume you haven't seen it??

cheers

richard

[Peter_1]

Saw it but was soooooo busy the last days to reply.
Sorry Richard.

We always use these pre-inuslated lines, it works faster but they're not cheap. We also use them in the trucks we build for the main suction and liquid line.
It's the type with the plastic shielding around the Armaflex, not that bubbled foam (it tears too easy when scrathing around a corner)

But as you already have perhaps noticed, AC installations of splits is not my main job, we say here... it's not my dada.
So; we don't use that big quantities.

I prefer more the installations where a little more knowledge is necesarry. Installing a simple split,...well... even my wife can tell you something about it and she never learned it.

A friend/collague of me died last week when installing an evaporator with a reachtruck. He was a one man company but look at the ammonia beauties he installed at www.ikr.be

[ecclesk]

Plant room ventilation can help to bring down head pressures, we had a similar problem a few years back, installed a large fan at each end of the plant room and reduced the hp by over a bar.

Environmental process systems Ltd, in yaxley, cambridgshire make an ecomesh system which can be installed onto most air cooled condensers, we have one installed at one of our sites and it seems to work well.

see attached pictures

when the ambient temp reaches a set point the controller opens a soleniod valve and sprays a fine mist of water onto the mesh, air being pulled through the mesh by the condenser evaporates the water reducing the temp of the air passing over the condenser coil and thus reducing the hp.

this system uses a lot less water than installing standard garden sprinklers as the controller can be set up to pulse the solenoid valve at timed intervals.

[bernard]

Hi ecclesk

Most of the Big T sites have this fine mist system fitted and it really works.

Unfortunately the condenser in question is fitted inside the plant room with two coldroom condensing unit underneath it.

Regards Bernard