after market a/c control systems (may be australian only?)

[paul_h]

Many here whack in the odd aftermarket system for a ducted a/c?
Might only be in australia, but I've needed to do it a few times, and there's a couple of options here that are cheap and worthwhile.
I've done it in carriers when carrier wanted $700 for a programmable thermostat, emails where the phasefale replacement is $900, panasonics where the parts are no longer available etc.

Here there is HAN and leasam controllers available anyway for our domestically produced ducted splits.

So I'm looking for discussion on their pros and cons.

Normally both types are too big to fit inside the evaps, so it means external mounting and lots of wiring while sitting in the ceiling space.
Also if mounting the controller in the indoor unit, it may mean running extra 1.5/2.5mm^2 cable to the outdoor unit
Leasam don't have an indoor coil sensor, so it's easy to install inside the outdoor unit, you only need to run the comms to the wall control and the indoor fan cabling to the indoor (which will already be there as you only really need A, N and E for the fan motor only if single speed).
HAN controllers obviously need to be at the indoor due to their indoor coil temp sensor.

If I'm sticking the leasam controller inside the outdoor unit, it often requires a lot of creative thinking to make it fit, and doesn't leave a lot of room for something like the leasam condensing unit controller (defrost, delay/fan controller), so I normally stick a cube time delay for the compressor, and a small MJB defrost controller.

I'm starting to think it may be better to use the leasam condensing unit controller in the outdoor unit, and go to the extra trouble of doing all the extra cabling to the indoor and running the thermostat control box at the indoor, but thats more wiring between the units, more time in the roof space extending all the cables from iside the evap to outside the evap. And if I do that I may as well use the HAN thermostat and take advantage of the indoor coil sensor that comes with that.

So... leasam condensing unit controller with HAN thermostat controller?
Or leasam thermostat controller with a seperate simple small defrost controller and time delay (eg MJB)?


What does everybody else do when using general purpose aftermarket control systems when faced with a system with no control PCBs available or ridiculously expensive?
Anyone know the price of the optional leasam indoor sensor if evap mounting the controller?
Would love it if they had a wiring kit to bridge their terminals as required for a full 240V system instead of making a dozen little short wires up for bridging.

These are what I'm talking about for those playing overseas, general purpose universal control systems. Like I said, make a perfectly good ducted a/c with too expensive PCBs or no longer available PCBs get working again.
http://actroncontrols.com/au/
http://www.hanwest.com.au/

[HVACRSA]

Hi Paul

I do this conversion fairly regularly. 9 out of 10 times just use a HAN L62. Seems to work fairly well if you have all the wiring in place otherwise it can be quite a job. There is also a defrost board available from HAN that works with there control system. Have had very few problems with them just fairly time consuming when doing the installation.

[paul_h]

tell me about it 4-5 hrs.
A lot of time wasted making up all the wire links inside the controller. I know it must be done as it's a pure univeral controller, but still a pain to do.

I started this thread because I have heard of the various defrost controllers before, but just recently looked into the leasam defrost/delay/fan speed controller and that does seriously look the best to me, just means like I said, I'd have to move the thermostat PCB controller to the indoor to make the outdoor PCB fit. While the easier option I do now is a leason t/stat in the outdoor, and squeeze in the smaller mjb defrost and cube timer.

As well as that, if HAN have the indoor coil temp sensor standard and it's only an option for leasam, then may as well use the HAN indoor, but with the leasam outdoor.
For a new install, leasam might be the better with their zone control anyway, and the HAN controller isn't exactly as easy to use as the leasam, quite fiddly and I hate the display personally. They don't even have the l62 on their website and that's been their controller for a long time (still have the L5 on there!)

I've only used the HAN controller when replacing an already installed but broken L5 with an L62 upgrade so I can use the existing cable. Even then it's a pain because the old controller is inside the evap, so have to external mount and extend all the cables into the evap and do all the 2cm-10cm bits of hook up wire internally.

[HVACRSA]

All the bridging inside the HAN is a bit of a pain but it is good that it is so versatile. I have never worked with the Leasam product so I can't really comment.

[Slugracing]

While the easier option I do now is a leason t/stat in the outdoor, and squeeze in the smaller mjb defrost and cube timer.

MJB Also have a condenser controller caled a MCCB-02 as well as the full system called a ACCS-1. Both on the MJB website

T
M

[Temprite]

Hi Paul.

What about Hevac controls (supplied by Actrol)?

[Slugracing]

Hi Paul.

What about Hevac controls (supplied by Actrol)?

They are mostly used for commercial applications and not for small condensing units.

[exotiic]

Would anyone have any idea of an appropriate control to replace a lost keypad in a Samsung cassette unit? Would any of the available aftermarket controls be suitable for a cassette?

[amerillove]

Does buying a new 'remote only' applicable?

[Ricky Howell]

Many here whack in the odd aftermarket system for a ducted a/c?
Might only be in australia, but I've needed to do it a few times, and there's a couple of options here that are cheap and worthwhile.
I've done it in carriers when carrier wanted $700 for a programmable thermostat, emails where the phasefale replacement is $900, panasonics where the parts are no longer available etc.

Here there is HAN and leasam controllers available anyway for our domestically produced ducted splits.

So I'm looking for discussion on their pros and cons.

Normally both types are too big to fit inside the evaps, so it means external mounting and lots of wiring while sitting in the ceiling space.
Also if mounting the controller in the indoor unit, it may mean running extra 1.5/2.5mm^2 cable to the outdoor unit
Leasam don't have an indoor coil sensor, so it's easy to install inside the outdoor unit, you only need to run the comms to the wall control and the indoor fan cabling to the indoor (which will already be there as you only really need A, N and E for the fan motor only if single speed).
HAN controllers obviously need to be at the indoor due to their indoor coil temp sensor.

If I'm sticking the leasam controller inside the outdoor unit, it often requires a lot of creative thinking to make it fit, and doesn't leave a lot of room for something like the leasam condensing unit controller (defrost, delay/fan controller), so I normally stick a cube time delay for the compressor, and a small MJB defrost controller.

I'm starting to think it may be better to use the leasam condensing unit controller in the outdoor unit, and go to the extra trouble of doing all the extra cabling to the indoor and running the thermostat control box at the indoor, but thats more wiring between the units, more time in the roof space extending all the cables from iside the evap to outside the evap. And if I do that I may as well use the HAN thermostat and take advantage of the indoor coil sensor that comes with that.

So... leasam condensing unit controller with HAN thermostat controller?
Or leasam thermostat controller with a seperate simple small defrost controller and time delay (eg MJB)?


What does everybody else do when using general purpose aftermarket control systems when faced with a system with no control PCBs available or ridiculously expensive?
Anyone know the price of the optional leasam indoor sensor if evap mounting the controller?
Would love it if they had a wiring kit to bridge their terminals as required for a full 240V system instead of making a dozen little short wires up for bridging.

These are what I'm talking about for those playing overseas, general purpose universal control systems. Like I said, make a perfectly good ducted a/c with too expensive PCBs or no longer available PCBs get working again.


Hi Paul,

Hi I'm Ricky from Actron Controls the price of the indoor coil sensor is $18.00 + GST depending on what model of control your using some have a start delay that can be programmed in.

I'll also talk to the engineers about a bridging kit we may be able to do something for you.

After many requests we have finaly built a Defrost control board we have just finished testing the new defrost board over winter and it's now ready for release.

we also have engineers in the office to help with wiring diagrams if needed when you are replacing the old systems and fitting leasams in

call me on 1300 135 135

[paul_h]

Anyone know which of these (mjb, actron/leasam and HAN) have an indoor temp probe that allows on indoor fan on heat mode when coil hot, and ful time fan only in cool or fan mode?
Last time I played with a HAN, even though they had the indoor coil sensor as default, it was either fan cycles with compressor, or runs all the time including heat mode I think.
And actron/leasam and mjb both have the indoor thermistor optional, so don't know how they run or can be set up.

I'm after the setup that every OEM has, fan cycles on heat with coil thermistor reading 40C, and runs constantly with the system set to cool or optionally in auto mode with the compressor. It's just my preference to have the fan running constant in cool mode but not in heat mode.

edit: also, does any of them enable config of the indoor fan motor speeds available? IE if I have a single speed fan motor, or two speed, instead of bridging all the fan speed outputs on the indoor relay board just so the fan always works regardless of the setting on the thermostat, or having the end user complain that certain speeds seem to make no difference, It would better if the options were removed from the controller. Less wiring and bridging, less time explaining why low/med/high or med/high don;t seem to make a discernible difference to the end user (original a/c equipment limitation! not controller fault or installation fault)

[Slugracing]

Anyone know which of these (mjb, actron/leasam and HAN) have an indoor temp probe that allows on indoor fan on heat mode when coil hot, and ful time fan only in cool or fan mode?


Pretty sure the ACCS-1 from MJB Controls does

Give them a buzz I have found them to be good at answering questions.

T
S

[Slugracing]

I could email you the links but I need 15 posts or more first .. Little over the top I think

[Slugracing]

Ok got my 15 posts (had to be a little cheeky)

The ACCS-1 (http://www.mjbcontrols.com.au/index.php?q=node/30) info can be found here and obviously the website is here.

http://www.mjbcontrols.com.au/

BTW, how do you edit an old post ?

T
M

[paul_h]

Bumping this again because I've found a teco ducted a/c with a HAN L5 controller that's faulty.
I don't know how this ever worked right with no defrost at all.
Just a basic L5 controller inside, and just a contactor for compressor, sump heater relay and time delay outside. No fan control or defrost.
So looking at an outdoor controller again.
MJB looks OK, as I usually go for the mjb defrost controller. But problem with their full system is the indoor wall control dimensions (bigger is better guys! Covers the old one/holes/different colour paint etc when retrofitting) and outdoor controller size (smaller is better!) ;)
So who does make the best smallest indoor PCB and outdoor controller PCB, but largest wall controller? Keeping in mind I prefer the indoor fan to run full time in cool mode, but only cycle on/off in heat mode depending on indoor coil temp/compressor cycling?

[Slugracing]

So looking at an outdoor controller again.
MJB looks OK, as I usually go for the mjb defrost controller. But problem with their full system is the indoor wall control dimensions (bigger is better guys! Covers the old one/holes/different colour paint etc when retrofitting) and outdoor controller size (smaller is better!) ;)


How big do you need the wall controller ? I have one of the MJB ones here I can measure it if you like ?

T
M

[paul_h]

Well just to cover and different wall paint and/or holes that the standard leasam/Hanwest controller is. That really is the only issue I see with the MJB one, it's not the standard square like the others, which at a guess are ~120-140mm ^2.
Seems like MJB took the wide but not tall approach

[Greengrocer]

Hi paul h.

I can't believe all this work is worth your time & effort. If the kit is old enough not to have spares available or no PCB's it must be running on R22. Not sure what you guys have signed up to over there but here in EU /UK R22 systems are almost un-serviceable now as R22 ceased production in Jan last year & recycled gas is in such short supply. Stock piling R22 is also banned (officially).
So, getting back to your original question, what's the point trying to keep an old system running when a new one would be more efficient and come with a warranty? I assume the client can't afford a replacement? But surely 4-6 hrs of your time + parts + travelling doesn't come cheap either.
Obviously there is a market for this kind of thing down under otherwise the companies you mentioned wouldn't be selling the product but I still can't see how this is worth your time and effort - unless you're making nice margins or, you have nothing better to do during the quiet seasons.
Perhaps we / I need a bit of education on this unique market you have.

[paul_h]

R22 is still available here, and is cheap (for now).
I don't install ducted systems, being a one man band, so I either have to refuse to go look at them in case its a controller problem with no spares, or waste time going around and condemning everything telling them to get someone else out to replace the system as the controller is stuffed and no OEM replacements available.

If everything else is working and it's not too old (like 10 years old), it's not too big a job or too difficult to fit an aftermarket controller really.
These controllers are commonplace here as I said, as they are factory fitted to locally made a/cs. I replace like for like in temperzone ducted units when the controller breaks after 5 years or so anyway, so it's not too big a deal to fit them to some other brand lacking a replacement of the shelf kit. It's not so much that the units are so old they don't have spares, many units have no spares after 6yrs, or as I said, they are so expensive it's worthwhile paying me labour to fit something cheaper.

I'm just trying to find the best system that makes it quicker and easier. I'd rather have a kit/combo in place so it's less time wasted getting everything planned out and fitted.

[Greengrocer]

R22 is still available here, and is cheap (for now).
I don't install ducted systems, being a one man band, so I either have to refuse to go look at them in case its a controller problem with no spares, or waste time going around and condemning everything telling them to get someone else out to replace the system as the controller is stuffed and no OEM replacements available.

If everything else is working and it's not too old (like 10 years old), it's not too big a job or too difficult to fit an aftermarket controller really.
These controllers are commonplace here as I said, as they are factory fitted to locally made a/cs. I replace like for like in temperzone ducted units when the controller breaks after 5 years or so anyway, so it's not too big a deal to fit them to some other brand lacking a replacement of the shelf kit. It's not so much that the units are so old they don't have spares, many units have no spares after 6yrs, or as I said, they are so expensive it's worthwhile paying me labour to fit something cheaper.

I'm just trying to find the best system that makes it quicker and easier. I'd rather have a kit/combo in place so it's less time wasted getting everything planned out and fitted.

Understood. Sounds like it is a "local thing" since in the main we wouldn't even attempt to try and repair a system if we couldn't get specific OEM parts when needed. Another factor here is that the r22 situation is starting to create a sizeable replacement system market. Everything from small splits to large VRV/VRF systems. As a result we would rather spend our time on more lucrutive replacement jobs than fiddling about trying to fix a no-name A/C system which, if it has already lost or looses it's gas charge after our repair, is pretty much unserviceable / redundent anyway. So any money spent on the system would be wasted.

Still, for the sake of an extra pair of hands you are missiing out on some valuable replacement system work as & when the need arises. Here in UK a lot of our "one man bands" employ casual labour to assist them with installs as & when they need them e.g. lift CDU's onto wall brackets & Cassettes / ducted units into ceilings etc. Or, they hire or buy hoists and such to assist them (think I remember you discussing this on another thread a while ago). These are lads that live near to the enginner who are willing to work on an ad hock basis & perhaps progress further if they want. I know it's difficult to find youngsters with the right work ethic these days but when you do it can lead to permenant work later on if you start installing more & more systems. Having said that it's alot of extra responsibility / hassle if you are used to working on your own - just a thought.

[paul_h]

Yeah I have a hoist, that's for just installing wall split condensing units up a wall, or lifting big compressors onto a single storey roof.
I really want another fridgey going out on his own to help me with the repair and install work I get, but looking for someone experienced just to take repair jobs off me when I'm busy, or do installs for me unsupervised at their own charging rate. Never really worked for an install company, so don't like it and avoid big installs, keeping it to wall splits and of course repair work.

I get these controller replacement jobs like in this thread because every else says replace the whole system. :)
I'm the only guy that says "I can fix it". You're right though, it's a local thing, hence the thread title. Many manufacturers throw together some sheet metal, a fan and compressor and sell it as a ducted system down here. That's where the 3 brands I mentioned come in, leasam, hanwest and mjb. They exist to make controllers for units sold here locally, and are fitted by the installers when put in. So there's heaps around that are just needing replacing after a few years. If you do that long enough, it's no big deal to fit them to some imported brand ducted a/c that has a no longer available controller or a rip of price for OEM parts.