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Abe
14-06-2005, 10:53 AM
Ive got some reclaimed refrigerant which requires to be disposed of correctly.

Do I refer to waste management companies like Biffa, Williams environmental, or are they other agencies who will take it off me?

Im in Leicestershire

frank
14-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Just take it back to your refrigerant supplier who will arrange to have it incinerated - and charge you for the privilage :(

Andy W
14-06-2005, 07:12 PM
If you deal with Refrigeration Parts Wholesale you purchase a 50 Kg cylinder for a one off fee of £150 + VAT, fill it up with any gas even mixtures, fill in the paperwork and return back to RPW and thats it! I did this recently with two 50 Kg cylinders with no problems what so ever and you can still charge the customer up to £4.50 per Kg for destruction if you wish.

rbartlett
14-06-2005, 07:21 PM
sell it on ebay.com

american kids love sniffin that sh1t by all accounts

cheers

richard

benijoseph
14-06-2005, 07:22 PM
:D
Dear friend,

I suggest you dont try to distroy the refrigrant which his already produced try to re use the same gas some other application or give it to some one who will reuse it with out causing any harm to enviroment.
beni joseph,

chillin out
14-06-2005, 09:00 PM
Hello Beni Joseph


After compresing gas into condensor and next day if unit behaved well it means flow rate of the gas is not proper or gas is mixed with some other gas or gas might be poorly recycled gas,

This is why we do not reuse gas. The problems it causes does not justify the savings. :)
It is better to incinerate.

Argus
15-06-2005, 12:36 PM
The situation concerning waste refrigerant disposal is now part of new legislation in the UK.

Used, mixed and contaminated refrigerants in general are classified as Hazardous Waste along with CFCs.

Check the HMSO web site http://www.opsi.gov.uk/stat.htm Click on year 2005, then search for SI No; 895. Read the words in the front and then section 14.
SI 2005 / 894 is the new hazardous waste regulations.
DEFRA have information on their web site.

Basically, your customer has a duty of care to dispose of waste only through authorised and licensed handlers ? and this means you.

If you are taking charge of it you may need storage and transport licenses.
Like everything else in DEFRA concerning our industry it?s a grey area because you are not a professional waste handler, so do you need all the licenses?

To make life easier for small contractors, some suppliers of waste cylinders will offer a disposal service (for a fee) that includes extension of their licenses for transportation to their clients. Some big contractors carry licenses for their operatives. It?s worth checking what your supplier of refrigerants offers.

It?s a new and tricky area of legislation that covers oil and eutectic solutions as well as refrigerants ? I suggest you take advice. It won?t go away.

You MUST keep records and show that you passed it on to a licensed operator, and provide them for your clients.


Hope this helps
________
universal health warehouse (http://uhwh.com/)

frank
15-06-2005, 07:16 PM
If you are taking charge of it you may need storage and transport licenses.
Like everything else in DEFRA concerning our industry it’s a grey area because you are not a professional waste handler, so do you need all the licenses?

Under the old BS4434 and waste handling regs, we as engineers, are allowed to take the reclaimed gas from the site to the waste disposal site on our vans without any license requirements. However, if we take the "waste" back to our yard and store it we must then be licensed to do so.

Wierd isn't it?

I don't know how the current regs stand but I can't see much change.

chillin out
15-06-2005, 08:21 PM
I thought you were allowed to carry either 1 or 2 `waste` categories on your van, counting reclaimed gas, waste oil, scrap copper, and any other items destined for the bin or proper disposal. Thats not including waste building material which you do need a special licience for.

chemi-cool
15-06-2005, 08:32 PM
I will pay 1GBP per 1 kg of used - not mixed, R12.

only in disposable containers.

Chemi :)

Argus
15-06-2005, 09:22 PM
[QUOTE=frank]Under the old BS4434 and waste handling regs, we as engineers, are allowed to take the reclaimed gas from the site to the waste disposal site on our vans without any license requirements. However, if we take the "waste" back to our yard and store it we must then be licensed to do so.

Times have changed, I?m afraid.
BS 4434 was withdrawn years ago in favour of EN 378, and in those days when it first came out there were no rules about disposal.
The hazardous waste regulations are EU rules now.
I think that the Environment Agency have been given teeth on this one.
________
Honda VTR1000F (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_VTR1000F)

eggs
15-06-2005, 10:58 PM
I'm afraid i cant help as far as the regulations are concerned, but this is what i do.
When i need to reclaim gas, i go to Thermo, swm, kooltech..., wherever, and get a reclaim bottle.
reclaim the gas and charge the customer £xxx/kg.
Take the bottle back to the supplier, fill in the paperwork.
About 1 month later i get a bill for the gases destruction.

I have come to the conclusion that, i, can't know everything about the legalities of running a business like ours. So i put my trust in the wholesalers, to help me, to do the right thing.

hope this helps

cheers

eggs

benijoseph
16-06-2005, 07:07 PM
Hello Beni Joseph



This is why we do not reuse gas. The problems it causes does not justify the savings. :)
It is better to incinerate.

sorry chill!
when no production or banned . then what?

recycle to 100% purity then use!

beni joseph

chillyhamster
16-06-2005, 07:36 PM
If you are the person creating the waste, ie. recovering refrigerant, then you are allowed to transport it to a waste handling facility without a licence. If any third party is involved in the transport of the material then they require a licence. All recovered materials need certification which is supplied by the supplier of the recovery cylinders. NB. did you know that refrigeration oil is a hazardous material and should be drained from faulty compressors being returned / carried by third parties and disposed in the same manner as reclaimed refrigerant.

chillin out
16-06-2005, 11:40 PM
Hi beni

If you are talking about R12 and the likes then no you shouldn`t be cleaning and re-useing.You should be using a drop-in gas and disposing of any banned substances properly.
After all, every system has leaks no matter how small. So in effect you are releasing the gas to the atmosphere, (which is obviously bad if they have been banned). :) :)

Brian_UK
19-06-2005, 11:06 PM
.....purchase a 50 Kg cylinder .........Make sure that you are allowed to carry a cylinder that size in your vehicle first.

chillin out
19-06-2005, 11:42 PM
Hi Brian


Make sure that you are allowed to carry a cylinder that size in your vehicle first.

What makes you say that?, is there a limit on the size of gas bottle you are allowed to carry?
:confused:

rbartlett
20-06-2005, 06:11 AM
Hi Brian



What makes you say that?, is there a limit on the size of gas bottle you are allowed to carry?
:confused:

No just make sure the seatbelt on the passenger seat next to you is suitable ;-)

cheers

richard

Brian_UK
20-06-2005, 04:44 PM
What makes you say that?, is there a limit on the size of gas bottle you are allowed to carry?

The Transport of Dangerous Goods by Road Regulations 1996 do not apply to any dangerous goods whose receptacle size or total load size within the transport category does not exceed the following:-
Category 3 - Non-flammable or non-toxic gas (Oxygen, nitrogen and general refrigerants (NOT hydrocarbons) is 25 litres with a total load of 500 litres.

Category 2, Flammables is 10 litres, max 200 litres.

So, in theory, you cannot use a 50kg cylinder in your normal car/van or whatever unless you fulfill the requirements of the Act.

Also, of course, you shouldn't be lifting anything that heavy, H&S

neil sailes
21-06-2005, 08:19 PM
Hey all
We use HRP for our reclaim bottles who take them away when they are full. I always thought that the reasoning behind not reclaiming different refrigerants into the same reclaim bottle was so that the none CFC refrigerants could be filtered and re-used.
I always mark up bottles that have a chance of being contanimated " refrigerant to be sent for destruction".

Neil

chillin out
22-06-2005, 12:18 AM
We carry 5 different gases on the van totaling 9 altogether(several of each types). No way am I going to carry 5 reclaims as well, 1 does all.
You may say this is not planet friendly but it gets incinerated anyway.
And lets be honest if you carry reclaims for each gas and all are pure with there specific gas and then you come accross another type that you dont usually use, what are you going to do with a mere 200 grams of it? spoil your pure bottles or put it in a tesco bag?
The only problem with mixing gases is you will have odd pressures and you might not be able to fill it fully.
:)

frank
22-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Has anyone had to recover R410a yet?

Johnny Rod
23-06-2005, 11:05 AM
it gets incinerated anyway.

If refrigerant returned for disposal hasn't been mixed with other refrigerants then it is recycled back to new product spec. When you've mixed different refrigerants it's not easy to separate them again and they usually end up being incinerated. I believe you can also get a credit for uncontaminated gas returned (?)

Argus
23-06-2005, 11:50 AM
If refrigerant returned for disposal hasn't been mixed with other refrigerants then it is recycled back to new product spec. When you've mixed different refrigerants it's not easy to separate them again and they usually end up being incinerated. I believe you can also get a credit for uncontaminated gas returned (?)



Quite right and welcome to the forum.

Additionally, you can do it yourself if you have the equipment. Some reclamation units now available have the facility to clean pure refrigerants to a high specification.

The problem arises when you have blends that are outside proportional tolerances. If there is a significant quantity and it is uncontaminated, many refrigerant processors are able to readjust the mixture to its original spec. How much it costs and who retains ownership is a contractual detail between you, your customer (usually the owner of the stuff in the first place) and the processor.

Where there are other substances, either refrigerant compounds or non-condensable gases, mixed in then the mixture has to be destroyed.

CFCs are now banned in the EU and must be sent for destruction whatever their condition. As soon as they are taken out of the system they are hazardous wastes, (at least they will be after July 16 in the UK).

What continues to excite most visitors to this forum is the continued grey area of knowledge surrounding refrigerants under the new hazardous waste regulations.

Refrigerants and oils are definitely listed in the hazardous waste list.

Users and handlers must understand the risks of not complying with the new laws.
________
Honda C77 (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_C77)

frank
23-06-2005, 07:34 PM
I believe you can also get a credit for uncontaminated gas returned (?)

Ahh, the good old days :D

Temprite
24-06-2005, 11:06 AM
We still get credit

ejonesss
26-10-2010, 07:08 PM
here is ebay's policy on ***** sales

pages.ebay.com/help/policies/hazardous-materials.html