Trade Registration as an Industry

[Magoo]

It is about time we and as a collective industry world wide, start to push governments to registrar our industry.
We suffer all the compliance requirements to be Refrigeration Technicians, but any one can do it through the back door, so-to-speak.
here we have Plumbers and Electricians that are registered trades for health and safety reasons which is fare enough. But the same plonkers with that cover are installing heat pumps.
With the current global warming issues, I beleive we as a collective group should be recognized as responsible operators, by registation.
Everyone should be bombarding their respective polititions accordingly.
Everyone share your thoughts on the subject.

[Goober]

Couldn't agree with you more..assume you are aware of the upcoming conference in Rotovegas on this very subject. I'm really anti sparkies and plumbers plundering our trade, even though heat pumps are a dawdle to install.

Don't get me started on our friends from the islands and a certain company here in Auckland using ther cool room panel guy to do fridge installs and the complete wiring!!! Makes my F*#king blood boil.

[lowcool]

too true magoo,always wondered why i could not be unionised,could only find that it is not recognised as "trade" at the time due to covering four other areas of union recognised trades.this was many years ago.

if you can find someone to listen to the drum banging ive got a couple of empty 20 litre jobs and a ten inch shifter.
cheers

[coolhibby1875]

as long as the like of b@q and home depot sell heat pumps to the public, then they will be installed by any one who has wired up a plug:(

[multisync]

as long as the like of b@q and home depot sell heat pumps to the public, then they will be installed by any one who has wired up a plug:(

They also sell gas fires but you need a gas safe engineer to fit (legally) or if you fit a boiler you need to send the warranty card in to the manufacturer.

Of course I have said more than a few times we need to get a 'corgi' type registration but not many here agree....:D

We could reduce the self installers by removing flare connections and condensers charged with nitrogen (ah the good old days) but the manufacturers and wholesalers want sales so unless the G.Ment make those two things illegal then it won't happen any day soon..

[monkey spanners]

Of course I have said more than a few times we need to get a 'corgi' type registration but not many here agree....:D



I think it would be a good thing, who knows we might even start getting some respect from the average customer :D

[Magoo]

Hi Goober,
we are on the same page, the Rotovegus conference will no doudt be the 'all mighty industry manufacturers driven and subsidized group of money gatherers' the trade related association are no better. As for the company you mentioned, yes, I am aware what they do and who they sell anything to for a profit. Suggest an electrical inspection on a site if you know of one, then hit the media with the result. Under the OH&S act you are required to report it. The Lab Dept have more powers under the act than the Police, thats scary.

[Goober]

Heh Magoo,

Easier said than done with reporting the company, as we were working on the same site for the same customer. I couldn't report them as it jepordised my relationship with the customer. But never fear....slowly slowly catchy monkey. Just to be sure...the company I'm refering to name begins with H and ends with R, they also do a line in Meat machinery gear and have a warehouse out west way...

I'm also planning to go to that conference...be a first though...be interseting to see what our illustrious industry leaders have to say.....

Goober

[buddy]

Can you please explain the location and purpose of the Rotovegus conference?...as I have for one have never heard of it.

[Goober]

Rotovegas better known as Rotorua...a volcanic thermal large town in the North Island of NZ. A tourist destination. The locals here call it Rotovegas for its bright lights and humming night life.....not!

Conference is just a local thing here in NZ

[mad fridgie]

Rotovegas better known as Rotorua...a volcanic thermal large town in the North Island of NZ. A tourist destination. The locals here call it Rotovegas for its bright lights and humming night life.....not!

Conference is just a local thing here in NZ
I think that is a bit unfair, I was up there a couple of weeks ago, it was thursday night about 10pm, It was heaving, i am sure i saw 4 or 5 different people, (one may have been my reflection in a window but I was under the influence)

[matt p]

Rotovegas better known as Rotorua...a volcanic thermal large town in the North Island of NZ. A tourist destination. The locals here call it Rotovegas for its bright lights and humming night life.....not!

Conference is just a local thing here in NZ

Isn't that where all the rotory boys go to race on the circuit/dragstrip?.

Regards

Matt

[piewie]

I'm a bit confused by this conversation as the first 2 posts were from NZ and Auz. Of course it is recognised/registered trade have a look at the ANZSCO list 34211 or 4312-11 or 4312-01 on the old ASCO list also I am lead to believe that without a licence in Australia you would not be able to buy any refrigerant.

[paul_h]

Nah, different down south.
For example, the electrical trade is heavily regulated, can't wire anything without an electrical ticket.
We are granted a licence to repair refrig/a-c, but if you wanted to install a split, no can do. Need to do a full electrical apprenticeship to install new cables.
On the other hand, refrig isn't required as a trade/apprenticeship qual to install refrig/a-c.

A qual electrician can do a short 'installers' course and be banging up split systems. Or if they don't like pipework, can team up with a plumber who does the course and the two of them can be bashing up splits.

Short story: By the time the refrig trade wanted to be unionised, the government was against any new unions and stopped it.
These days the trades with influential unions (elec, plumbers and auto) are making the laws about refrig down here and run the show, telling refrig what to do and letting their guys into the refrig trade.

Great fun for the manufacturers, they offer 5 yr warranty and have cowboys installing splits who don't really have a clue how to install, (even about their own trade really*), and of course know nothing about troubleshooting or repair.

* Damn sick of seeing 15A isolators on 20A condensing units, or 1.5mm^2 cable on them, or no isolators, or 2.5mm^2 cable on a 30m run.

edit: ^^^ Yeah all the restrictions are on the refrig trade that buys refrigerant from wholesalers. Not the pre-charged gear.
So easy to make $$$ installing gear that leaks because they don't know what they're doing. Become an honest repairer that buys refrigerant to fix those stuff ups of someone else, then you are targeted, tracked and audited. No such controls or checks are done to the other's who just install dodgey systems.


Isn't that where all the rotory boys go to race on the circuit/dragstrip?.

Regards

Matt
Brap brap brapp!
I've got a 1975 RX4 and 1974 RX3, 12AT and 13B BP. Can't say which car has which motor as they are all in bits and unfinished projects!

[Grizzly]

Paul H.
Thanks for your continued honest input.
Reading your post here and previous ones.
Just maybe they will help any Engineers that have rose coloured Glasses where working in Oz may be concerned.
Magoo i am not trying to hijack your very valid post.
As I am in complete agreement with the sentiments and reasoning you put forward.
I know you are much travelled and have a wider breadth of experience than many.




I would love for this idea to gain momentum.
Sadly most (myself included!)are more concerned with keeping their jobs at the moment.
I for one, believed that as far as the U.K. was concerned.
2079 was going to give similar status as Corgi is to plumbers.
How wrong I was!
Now guys are walking around calling themselves Engineers.
Because they have a safe handling certificate.
I have gone from being a skilled Engineer to being a commodity!
Luckily most of my customers don't take the same view.

The only saving grace is that you still need to have someone physically do something.
Before you can bill someone.

Good Luck Magoo.


I wrote the above several days ago when your post first appeared.
In reflection with the above comments.
I now realise that the issues you raise are not just confined to the U.K. and (North and South) Ireland.
Grizzly

[Magoo]

Hi Grizzly.
All good comments. I raised the subject in an attempt to generate some commonality with in the trade community. We are all hamered on price structures, regulated to hell, pushed around by everyone, as a trade, we roll over/ bow and scrape to everyone to make a dollar. As an example the super market section dictate everything, labour rates, costing rates. For there benefit and bottom line profits.
If we were to operate as a registed entity, then charge rates can be governed/regulated/ dictated/ standardized.,country to country what ever.
Open debate is good for everyone, share your thoughts.
magoo