What should engineer be checking?

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Hi everyone

Got an engineer coming to look at my multisplit tmrw.

One of the coils is staying cold when it is turned off so some refrigerant must be getting through to the coil that is off.

If I turn one of the other units off and leave the faulty one on the problem does not follow the unit so it must be something to do with the EEV on my bedroom unit.

The coil gets to the same temperature as the units that are calling for cooling.

I feel in winter this is going to cause heating problems as refrigerant will go to a coil that doesnt is turned off thus affecting other units that do require heating.

What should the engineer be checking tmrw and how long can I expect him to take to diagnose the problem, as I say its only one of the units doing this.

He has suggested that the valve motor may be shot or something blocking the valve from shutting.

Any help greatfully received.

Thanks.

[Brian_UK]

I would have thought by now that you had a fully detailed check list for any visitors to your plant. :D

Yes it could be the valve motor, to check it and how long, well it depends how easy it is to get to.

[back2space]

I would have thought by now that you had a fully detailed check list for any visitors to your plant. :D



haha I agree Brian but I have had that many con artists and engineers who didnt have a clue what they were doing and thus made things worse it has varied wildley!

The guy whos coming tmrw is local and is old school so knows what he is doing!

[Grizzly]

I have had that many con artists and engineers who didn't have a clue what they were doing and thus made things worse it has varied wildley!



Your occupation is listed as IT ( with 685 posts)and yet this is a Refrigeration Forum.
Harsh words for one with such tenuous links, is it not?
Or am I missing something?
Grizzly

[back2space]

Your occupation is listed as IT ( with 685 posts)and yet this is a Refrigeration Forum.
Harsh words for one with such tenuous links, is it not?
Or am I missing something?
Grizzly

I am not in IT dont know why it says that, will update that now.

I work for a very large facilities management company.

If you read back at some of my other posts you will see the problems I have had with this unit, I have had engineers who have lost gas, not fitted pipework properly. Not done the maths to calculate additional refrigerant engineers who have worked in the dark (not even a torch) whilst drinking.

I have had engineers also let the gas go rather than recovering it as it "costs too much to dispose of"

So I feel my words are justified. However I do appreciate that any line of business has its cowboys however I have had more than my fair share of them. I seem to attract them or it could be just my area!

[monkey spanners]

Hi everyone

Got an engineer coming to look at my multisplit tmrw.

One of the coils is staying cold when it is turned off so some refrigerant must be getting through to the coil that is off.

If I turn one of the other units off and leave the faulty one on the problem does not follow the unit so it must be something to do with the EEV on my bedroom unit.

The coil gets to the same temperature as the units that are calling for cooling.

I feel in winter this is going to cause heating problems as refrigerant will go to a coil that doesnt is turned off thus affecting other units that do require heating.

What should the engineer be checking tmrw and how long can I expect him to take to diagnose the problem, as I say its only one of the units doing this.

He has suggested that the valve motor may be shot or something blocking the valve from shutting.

Any help greatfully received.

Thanks.

This isn't a problem i've seen in the past so once i had confirmed that the system is actually doing what you think it is, i would phone LG tech to see if this is normal for the system in it present operating condition (may be dependant on wht the other units are doing or how many are running), and if not what and how to check the part they think may be the cause.

Jon :)

[back2space]

This isn't a problem i've seen in the past so once i had confirmed that the system is actually doing what you think it is, i would phone LG tech to see if this is normal for the system in it present operating condition (may be dependant on wht the other units are doing or how many are running), and if not what and how to check the part they think may be the cause.

Jon :)

Thanks Jon

It is only doing it on one of the units. Have tried alternating different units to see if they all do it and they dont. In heating the EEVS are supposed to remain open 10% to allow for oil return but I feel this one is sticking open further than that which explains poor heating on the unit furthest away if too much gas is going to a unit that is supposed to be switched off.

The coil only seems to feel cold if I turn the unit off, if the unit is in cooling and the fan is operating the air off is at the ambient temperature and only the last 2/3 inches of coil are staying cold.

Have felt the external pipework outside and it is cold and there is condensate on it even thoguh it is switched off whereas the other units that are off dont have cold pipework.

I will never touch LG ever again after my experience!

LG technical dont hold out much either engneers in the past have never gotten anywhere with them.

They have always said thats how the units supposed to perform however several engineers have said other manufacturers dont behave like that.

[Quality]

Old school multi split engineer , do they exist?

[back2space]

Old school multi split engineer , do they exist?


I did say hes old school meaning he is in his 50s and doesnt come across as though hes gonna cut corners cos he wants to get off home early etc.

This is the impression that the engineers who have attended recently have given me... they were younger and dont think they were that bothered abuot quality of their work.

Not saying that all younger engineers are like that but its certainly harder to find someone through yellow pages that wants to work without cutting corners.

[Quality]

The man probably knows his job inside out but does he know a multi split inside out ,I Know I don`t, the mechanical process is the same but the control is far from it.
that's probably why you have had to suffer load of so called engineers
Monkey has it LG will hopefully sort it

We recently installed a vrv with 19 units (indoor) all mitsi electric and a nice job too.

But then had but problems with two rooms.

To cut a long story short 2 days it took two of their technical fellas to diagnose a faulty BC box

[monkey spanners]

I will never touch LG ever again after my experience!

LG technical dont hold out much either engneers in the past have never gotten anywhere with them.

They have always said thats how the units supposed to perform however several engineers have said other manufacturers dont behave like that.


On the few occasions i've had to call LG tech support i've found them to be very competant, certainly as good as other manufacturers and better than a few well regarded makes. This was LG direct and not a wholesalers tech department.

One thing i have learnt is air con units from all the different manufacturers basically do the same thing BUT they may go about it in different ways, expecting units from one manufacturer to behave the same as ones from another will have people finding faults were possibly none exist.

I hope you find the solution to your problem.

Jon :)

[back2space]

The man probably knows his job inside out but does he know a multi split inside out ,I Know I don`t, the mechanical process is the same but the control is far from it.
that's probably why you have had to suffer load of so called engineers
Monkey has it LG will hopefully sort it

We recently installed a vrv with 19 units (indoor) all mitsi electric and a nice job too.

But then had but problems with two rooms.

To cut a long story short 2 days it took two of their technical fellas to diagnose a faulty BC box

Yeh but when engineers weighed in the wrong ammount of refrigerant etc the surely something is up?

Letting gas into the atmosphere is cutting corners etc to save time.

[Quality]

Yeh I see your Point

[mad fridgie]

I am no specialist on LG (well wound not go near one) nor on VRVs, but one thing you could check is that the EEV head is actually hard down on the valve. (they tend for some reason to ride up slightly, which meaans the valve does not act as it should nor does it give the correct reading to the electronics of the valve position. To fix lift the head slightly up the valve then push down firmly, then add a tie to hold in place. Just something you should look at

[frederik79]

Old school multi split engineer , do they exist?

hehehehehe spot on :D

[still learning]

before you let some one loose on your kit ask for a gas handling card. yes there are good guys out there with no card.
mind you i did hear that the could be got for a fee in a pub near heathrow.

[spimps]

Letting gas off (now illegal) and incorrect charging wouldn't be the fault of LG unless they are LG employees of course.
Get recommendations before contacting engineers,word of mouth is the best way.
Fitted countless LG's and had very few problems that have required their technical input but when it has they have been first class.
Best of luck,you hopefully have the right man at last .

[Andy_WSM]

How did it go Richard?

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How did it go Richard?

Afternoon Andy

The engineer was here 2 hours investigating took covers off etc and thinks that there is something stopping the valve closing down fully. As the eev is operated by solenoid there is no easy access to the pin inside the valve.

TO resolve he turned all indoors onto full heating then shut the liquid line off on the faulty one to build pressure and then he released it in hope that it would blast through whatever is making it stick. No such look and problem is still there.

Visit cost £60 for 2 hours work, no materials used. Is this reasonable?

Engineer said other option instead of replacing the valve which is a fiddly job is to change the indoor unit over onto one of the unused ports on the outdoor unit. As the outdoor unit can take 4 indoor units only 3 are in use so this is another option which is less work than replacing the EEV itself.

[Andy_WSM]

Visit cost £60 for 2 hours work, no materials used. Is this reasonable?



Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Cost of getting to site, charge per hour etc etc.





Engineer said other option instead of replacing the valve which is a fiddly job is to change the indoor unit over onto one of the unused ports on the outdoor unit. As the outdoor unit can take 4 indoor units only 3 are in use so this is another option which is less work than replacing the EEV itself.

Good suggestion I'd have thought - unless someone here knows why this shouldn't work?

I guess that means collecting up the gas and remaking the pipework, vacuuming & re-gassing? Another couple of hours work?

[back2space]

[quote=Andy_WSM;199138]Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Cost of getting to site, charge per hour etc etc.

quote]

He lives one street away!

[Andy_WSM]

He lives one street away!

Yeah, but presume he still has a van full of equipment? Neither of which are free. I wouldn't have thought £60 is too much.

[monkey spanners]

Visit cost £60 for 2 hours work, no materials used. Is this reasonable?



I'm just curious from your perspective as a customer, one who has more understanding of air con systems and what is necessary to service them, than the average customer, what you think is a fair price to pay per hour, as a call out charge, or mileage if no call out charge for an engineer?


Cheers Jon :)

[back2space]

I'm just curious from your perspective as a customer, one who has more understanding of air con systems and what is necessary to service them, than the average customer, what you think is a fair price to pay per hour, as a call out charge, or mileage if no call out charge for an engineer?


Cheers Jon :)

He initially told me he charges £23 per hour, so I was expecting to pay £46 obviously if materials were required that would be extra.

bearing in mind he only took the covers off, didnt have to use gauges or anything else other than a screwdriver, allen key.

[monkey spanners]

This is interesting! I'm considering sending out a customer satisfaction survey with invoices in future to see where they think we have got things right and where there is room for improvement.

Did you feel the £60 was value for money?

If he had to travel for half an hour and say 15 miles to get to you what would you be happy paying for this also?

Cheers Jon :)

[back2space]

This is interesting! I'm considering sending out a customer satisfaction survey with invoices in future to see where they think we have got things right and where there is room for improvement.

Did you feel the £60 was value for money?

If he had to travel for half an hour and say 15 miles to get to you what would you be happy paying for this also?

Cheers Jon :)

To be honest no, because the £60 was just fault finding and taking the covers off. He seemed to drag it out really when we knew from the start that the valve wasnt closing properly. I told him this before he even arrived.

The fault is still there because nothing has actually been done to the unit to rectify it, something was tried to see if he could clear whatevers making the EEV stick but it didnt work so I feel I am £60 out of pocket and if I want him to take the next approach then he says its going to be more than £60.

The fact he lives in the next street he could have walked here its only 6 houses away across the road, so there was no travel involved he could have brought the screwdriver in his hand!

Nice bloke and knows what hes doing but im in the wrong business if I can take a few covers off and play about for a bit then charge someone £60 for 2 hours work.

If he had to travel to me for 1.5hrs then I would say wear and tear on the vehicle and fuel etc that its a fair price but if hes local then no still expensive.

£30 an hour!!!! Madness!

[Andy_WSM]

To be honest no, because the £60 was just fault finding and taking the covers off. He seemed to drag it out really when we knew from the start that the valve wasnt closing properly. I told him this before he even arrived.

The fault is still there because nothing has actually been done to the unit to rectify it, something was tried to see if he could clear whatevers making the EEV stick but it didnt work so I feel I am £60 out of pocket and if I want him to take the next approach then he says its going to be more than £60.

The fact he lives in the next street he could have walked here its only 6 houses away across the road, so there was no travel involved he could have brought the screwdriver in his hand!

Nice bloke and knows what hes doing but im in the wrong business if I can take a few covers off and play about for a bit then charge someone £60 for 2 hours work.

If he had to travel to me for 1.5hrs then I would say wear and tear on the vehicle and fuel etc that its a fair price but if hes local then no still expensive.

£30 an hour!!!! Madness!

If he quoted you £23 an hour and charged you £30 you have every right to feel peeved. But either way £30 an hour is NOT a lot of money nowadays - by the time he's paid his Tax & NI there isn't too much of that left (assuming you didn't pay it in cash and he's slipped it in his pocket).

Whether or not he used his van & tools, he still has them - i.e. ongoing costs. Also, training & certifications don't come cheap nowadays...

I work in Telecomms and am a Manager of a team of engineers. We work out the cost of our engineer resource as £65 per hour. This is the cost to keep the engineers employed, tax, NI, pensions, training, test equipment etc - NOT what they get paid!

[Andy_WSM]

If he had to travel to me for 1.5hrs then I would say wear and tear on the vehicle and fuel etc that its a fair price but if hes local then no still expensive.


My engineers bill the company the HMRC recommended rate of 40 Pence PER MILE if they use their own vehicles. So an hour and a half of traveling could easily cost £30 - £40 in mileage charges alone.

[Brian_UK]

<snip> As the eev is operated by solenoid there is no easy access to the pin inside the valve.<snip>
EEV's are not operated by solenoids but by stepper motors. They normally screw onto the valve themselves.

Easy matter, normally, to unscrew the motor and push the valve pin in. Pin should return under operating pressure.

Unless LG use something special.

[back2space]

EEV's are not operated by solenoids but by stepper motors. They normally screw onto the valve themselves.

Easy matter, normally, to unscrew the motor and push the valve pin in. Pin should return under operating pressure.

Unless LG use something special.

He said it was a solenoid it was like a coil round the top of the head that came off.

[Brian_UK]

Oh, OK, so maybe it isn't an EEV. :confused:

[back2space]

Oh, OK, so maybe it isn't an EEV. :confused:

God knows knowing LG, they say its an EEV.

[monkey spanners]

To be honest no, because the £60 was just fault finding and taking the covers off. He seemed to drag it out really when we knew from the start that the valve wasnt closing properly. I told him this before he even arrived.

The fault is still there because nothing has actually been done to the unit to rectify it, something was tried to see if he could clear whatevers making the EEV stick but it didnt work so I feel I am £60 out of pocket and if I want him to take the next approach then he says its going to be more than £60.

The fact he lives in the next street he could have walked here its only 6 houses away across the road, so there was no travel involved he could have brought the screwdriver in his hand!

Nice bloke and knows what hes doing but im in the wrong business if I can take a few covers off and play about for a bit then charge someone £60 for 2 hours work.

If he had to travel to me for 1.5hrs then I would say wear and tear on the vehicle and fuel etc that its a fair price but if hes local then no still expensive.

£30 an hour!!!! Madness!

Thanks for the reply,

So if i'm reading this right if he had traveled for 1.5hr (lets say 50 miles) and spent 2 hours on site then £60 would be a fair price?

I think this highlights something our industry gets very wrong, we are percieved as low skilled and deserving of low skilled rates.

I've worked out it costs about £20 to invoice a customer, just to pay for the book keeper and accountants fees, my van costs 50p a mile over my anual mileage to pay for purchacing, servicing, fuel, tyres, insurance, assuming a 40hr week its about £1 an hour for the liability insurance and about 25p an hour for the f gas ticket, etc

So thats £20 invoice + £25 mileage + £4.37 Insurance etc leaving me £10.36 out of which i have to pay my taxes and national insurance, buy and replace my tools etc

If i worked 40 hrs a week at that i'd make £6156.80 a year....

I had to get some new batteries for my drills a couple of months ago, as i was bored i worked out during lunch that the wear and tear on these is 2.8p an hour just for the barreries let alone the drills and chargers! I dread to work it out for all my tools, when i start to do it i just get depressed and wonder why i bother working in this trade.

Makes you think i hope,

Jon :D

[back2space]

Cash in hand he was paid, he said it would cost more if he had to add vat on!!!

[spimps]

£30 per hour is very reasonable,he doesn't use any technical stuff but sounds by his actions to know what he is doing.Some companies I know charge £45 per hour including travelling.
Would take too much time to list the equipment and training costs now required to work legally in the refrigeration industry,hourly costs would include all of this even though he might just use a screwdriver on this occasion.
Van equipment required must be approaching £7000,and thats just tools !
Trouble also when end users jump from one service provider to another,all that trust experience site knowledge etc gets lost and each new engineer starts from scratch everytime trying to work out what previous work has beeen done,has it been done correctly etc,not to mention the distrustful owner looking on.Easy money :D:D
If he had walked from "the next street" then it would be more than two hours,plus if he wanted extra equipment from his van and had to walk back .... more hourly costs.Silly I know but one silly remark deserves another !
What happened to the origional installers,don't they service what they install,why not try them ?

[back2space]

Origional installers,don't they service what hey install,why not try them ?

HAHA They did but they went bankrupt owing lots of money to people... they were so shoddy!

[lomb]

Or they were too cheap!:D
In fairness the going engineer rate in industry is around 65 an hour+vat
You'd be surprised how little of that is left when overheads are accounted for and downtime from not working etc
Why not just accept the system for what it is instead of pumping time, money and stress into it, in a few years it will probably need replacing in any case, generally they last for 8-10 years. If one valve is sticking chances are they all will in time if they were from the same batch and experienced the same working conditions.
Was the system properly vacuumed from the start?

[spimps]

HAHA They did but they went bankrupt owing lots of money to people... they were so shoddy!
Like I said recommendations and ask around to establish the quality of the company you are trading with.
Cash for no vat,so now you presumably have no written entry on your plant record or a record/receipt of work carried out !
Is it April 1st ?

[Andy_WSM]

Cash for no vat,so now you presumably have no written entry on your plant record or a record/receipt of work carried out !


Plant record on a Domestic installation?! That's more organised than I'll ever be!

[spimps]

Plant record on a Domestic installation?! That's more organised than I'll ever be!
Forgot it was domestic,ah well.no income tax no vat,no money back no gaurantee.

[Quality]

I thought this guy was supposed to know his stuff i.e. old school.
Prodding a valve or rather he can`t

Ps 30 quid an is extortionate amount for somebody who does not know his arse from his elbow but its peanuts for some that does

[spimps]

Think we need to see this one first hand,any chance of setting up a live web cam feed ready for the next engineers visit,wait,second thoughts it could be one of us. :eek:

[back2space]

Was the system properly vacuumed from the start?

Hi Lomb

To be honest cant say for certain I know they vacuumed it but I dont think pipework was flushed with nitrogen which is probably why something is stuck in the valve now.

[back2space]

Think we need to see this one first hand,any chance of setting up a live web cam feed ready for the next engineers visit,wait,second thoughts it could be one of us. :eek:

HAHA im sure you will want to stay well clear!

However if someone honest wants to come sort it then more than welcome... however will report back on here!

[back2space]

I thought this guy was supposed to know his stuff i.e. old school.
Prodding a valve or rather he can`t

Ps 30 quid an is extortionate amount for somebody who does not know his arse from his elbow but its peanuts for some that does

Really? Everyone else seems to think that its more than fair?

It took nearlly an hour for him to strip the unit down enough to get to the valves then he was checking temps on all the valves to see what the difference was. (this bit is where I thought he was wasting time as I had done all this with a infra red thermometer, so I dont think he needed to do this to see him for himself but I guess to be fair to the guy he needs to be sure what I am saying is true as most customers wouldnt have a clue or will describe something that means another). He also switched coils around on the PCB to see if bahaviour stayed with the unit or if it was a control issue.

So really solution is as he has given, order new valve or switch over onto one of the unused ports meaning another call out. Hes diagnosed the problem officially whereas I was speculating from behaviour of the system, something I know like the back of my hand.

Other problem is will this cause performance issues if refrigerant is going to a unit that is off? Liquid back to compressor?

[spimps]

Could also be that the return spring in the solenoid has weakened and not closing off fully.
Nitrogen doesn't clear the pipe work,it does if used when brazing as well as pressure testing prevent oxydisation,flakes of which can come loose and could be blocking the valve.
Could also be particles not cleared ie burrs from pipe cutting etc which have started floating around in the system and coming to rest in the valve seat.

[back2space]

Could also be particles not cleared ie burrs from pipe cutting etc which have started floating around in the system and coming to rest in the valve seat.

I agree deffo an option.

[still learning]

just a question, how much per hour in a garage to sevice a car, in jersey its any where between , £35 to £75.
a/c work is cheap, in my eye , we should charge more..
i m h o , if you take the cheapest, you will get monkeys.

[Brian_UK]

This conversation makes me chuckle.

You ask a techie to come around on the cheap and complain because he takes readings using the correct equipment because you have taken readings yourself; sorry but infra red thermometers are no good for what you want.

Then because he doesn't give you the result you wanted or expected you start complaining about the price.

When you get your car serviced do you stand over the mechanic telling him he using the wrong spanner or the oil isn't the one you would use; but you pay the high garage charges without blinking. Or if your clients came and stood over your desk while you allocate staff would you approve. I don't think so.

You have never been happy with this equipment and installation or any of the techies that have been to site yet. The likelihood of your system working as you want seems highly improbable and finding a cheap super engineer is not going to happen either.

[back2space]

This conversation makes me chuckle.

You ask a techie to come around on the cheap and complain because he takes readings using the correct equipment because you have taken readings yourself; sorry but infra red thermometers are no good for what you want.

Then because he doesn't give you the result you wanted or expected you start complaining about the price.

When you get your car serviced do you stand over the mechanic telling him he using the wrong spanner or the oil isn't the one you would use; but you pay the high garage charges without blinking. Or if your clients came and stood over your desk while you allocate staff would you approve. I don't think so.

You have never been happy with this equipment and installation or any of the techies that have been to site yet. The likelihood of your system working as you want seems highly improbable and finding a cheap super engineer is not going to happen either.

He monitored temperatures using a thermometer probe that he pressed onto the liquid and gas lines. I used a infra red thermometer to do the same? WHy would infra red thermometers not do the same, it gave me the same results and conclusion?

He gave me the result I knew and expected so the reason I was enquiring about the price as rather than spending 2 hours to confirm the same problem I dont think he actually did anything to fix the problem and the issue could have been confirmed.

You use the anology of a car in a garage, if you had taken your car to have the brakes fixed on one of your wheels because it wasnt locking on properly yet 2 hours later they had carried out the same investigations as you but no fix was in place how would you feel?

[Andy_WSM]

You use the anology of a car in a garage, if you had taken your car to have the brakes fixed on one of your wheels because it wasnt locking on properly yet 2 hours later they had carried out the same investigations as you but no fix was in place how would you feel?

I do wonder why your techie didn't get on and move the unit to another port of the valve while he was there. Seems the obvious thing to do - he even suggested it himself. Another hour or so of labour would have been more palatable had he left the unit working as it should do. It's not like your unit is hard to reach and work on is it? It's ground level if I remember correctly?

[back2space]

I do wonder why your techie didn't get on and move the unit to another port of the valve while he was there. Seems the obvious thing to do - he even suggested it himself. Another hour or so of labour would have been more palatable had he left the unit working as it should do. It's not like your unit is hard to reach and work on is it? It's ground level if I remember correctly?

Yep at ground level! I even went out to get him decafe tea as he didnt drink normal tea!

[Prince Vaillant]

Not Decafe Tea as well! Did he hoover up as he was leaving, and did he pay you for your expert knowledge?

[bigor_2]

I have idea how to make diagnostics by the handmade;)
To write here or to private message?

[lomb]

This is the funniest post ive read. Is this old school caffeine free engineer who wanted 60 quid for diagnosing it but didnt want to port the unit on this forum out of interest?

[Gingerair]

You should have got him a double espresso, he might have been up for moving the unit to a different port while he was there..... :)

Caffine is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes... :confused:

[nick uk]

out of curiosity what does a employee of a facilities company cost his company taking into account pensions office space etc would the hourly cost approach £60 /hour is this reasonable

[Brian_UK]

Why would infra red thermometers not do the same, it gave me the same results and conclusion?
IR Units
http://www.allqa.com/IR.htm

[back2space]

Not Decafe Tea as well! Did he hoover up as he was leaving, and did he pay you for your expert knowledge?

Obviously that was a joke when I wrote about decafe tea!

[back2space]

out of curiosity what does a employee of a facilities company cost his company taking into account pensions office space etc would the hourly cost approach £60 /hour is this reasonable

haha I doubt it they have turned the HVAC off at the moment as the overnight office space is costing too much to cool on its own by having the main chiller plant running.

TEmps approaching 28C through the night! Awful!

[back2space]

IR Units
http://www.allqa.com/IR.htm

Interesting read Brian, thanks for the link.

Not sure if I am missing something though... you said that it is not a good idea to use infra red?

The engineer came to the same conclusion as me.

The site quotes:

"Monitoring Equipment



You can use your noncontact thermometer to check more than just the temperature of food. You can also evaluate the performance of your equipment and machinery.


Detect hot spots or leaks by taking sample spot readings of freezers, walk-in coolers, refrigeration lines, compressor motors, electrical, and HVAC equipment."

[Brian_UK]

Yep, fair comment, but bear in mind the size of the tube and the size of the sensing zone.

Also the emissivity of the tube compared with the setting of your unit.

I'm not saying that they don't have their uses but you need to be aware of their inaccuracies.

An example, which may be wrong, infra-red measures the pipe and it shows it is cold, contact thermometer measures the pipe and tells you what the temperature actually is. (over simple, I know)

[back2space]

Yep, fair comment, but bear in mind the size of the tube and the size of the sensing zone.

Also the emissivity of the tube compared with the setting of your unit.

I'm not saying that they don't have their uses but you need to be aware of their inaccuracies.

An example, which may be wrong, infra-red measures the pipe and it shows it is cold, contact thermometer measures the pipe and tells you what the temperature actually is. (over simple, I know)

Yeh totally respect what your saying Brian. Thanks for pointing it out I have seen readings can fluctuate. I also use the masking tape tip on reflective surfaces etc.

[sumsor]

Hi there,

any good engineer would do his own diagnostic.
He found the fault, tried to fix it and after this didn't work he gave you other options to fix it.
Sounds reasonable to me!
Swapping pipes and electrical to the free port shouldn't take too long, why didn't you get him to do it straight away? That would have saved some time, he wouldn't have to come back again.

[Andy_WSM]

Hey Richard, did you decide what to do about this? Going to bother getting it fixed before the Autumn/Winter cold sets in?

[back2space]

I want to get it fixed as I have been told its possible if the fan is not running on one of the units thats turned off that liquid could get back to the compressor.

I have spent so much getting things fixed on this unit, all down to cowboy engineers that havent done it properly in the first place rather than the fault of lg directly. I accept the control strategy is rubbish on the multi split range from LG.

Cost is one issue that may cost to put this right, the engineer says that its prob a bit of swarf in the valve from when the have braised the pipework etc but as per LG the valve is not serviceable and must be replaced.

Other option is to swap pipe work over but if I paid £60 for work not involving any equipment then to have it pumped down etc and then vac tested its gonna be 4 hours work at least... Prob looking at about £300 might as well save that towards getting something decent put in?

[lomb]

Weren't you planning to move as you were in rented accommodation? If so id stop worrying about the value of the system/protecting it from floodback. In your next house do what I did and get single splits. Also get a competent engineer to install or do it yourself if you feel competent and can purchase the correct tools and equipment. Cowboys will not worry too much about system cleanliness, insulation gaps, quality of vacuum or quality of flares.
I guess if you buy from a reputable company they install and give a 3 year warranty so they have a vested interest in putting it in properly.

[lomb]

Having pipes swapped, pumping down etc is not that easy. Maybe if its run for a while the swarf will move on(hopefully).
Should the filter drier not have caught the junk?

[bob007]

This has been great reading!!
Aint this just a peice or crap stuck in the solinoid valve can it not be stripped and cleaned out or blow out. I work on alot of cellar cooling units and if there is going to be a place were swarf will lodge its the solinoid valve..

[back2space]

This has been great reading!!
Aint this just a peice or crap stuck in the solinoid valve can it not be stripped and cleaned out or blow out. I work on alot of cellar cooling units and if there is going to be a place were swarf will lodge its the solinoid valve..

Nope it is in the valve which is inside the unit and is non serviceable as per LG.

[terminator]

I had this on a Daikin multi once. Turned out to be the eev sticking open.

This could either be the same, or the eev getting the wrong command - that may be possible to varify with LG tech. I'd try that first..;)

[back2space]

I had this on a Daikin multi once. Turned out to be the eev sticking open.

This could either be the same, or the eev getting the wrong command - that may be possible to varify with LG tech. I'd try that first..;)

From what the engineer has said the valve is not able to close all the way, he changed the units over on the PCB board and the fault remained on the same unit so its not a control issue.

[terminator]

Looks like you're into changing the eev then.

[back2space]

Looks like you're into changing the eev then.


Thats what were looking to do but think we will just change the unit over onto the unused port.

However as ppl have said no point wasting money as will eventually move out of here after maybe another 3/4 yrs and then I can put mitsi in!

[lomb]

Evacuating the system back into the compressor isnt a big job at all. I dont know anything about multisplits but reporting the pipes cant be that hard? especially if you dont add on to existing pipes ie the bad port is furthest away or there is some slack on the pipework. If he charges 30 an hour it probably 4 hours work so 120 .Thats still a bargain, commercial businesses can get charged 500 or more for something like that.

[back2space]

Evacuating the system back into the compressor isnt a big job at all. I dont know anything about multisplits but reporting the pipes cant be that hard? especially if you dont add on to existing pipes ie the bad port is furthest away or there is some slack on the pipework. If he charges 30 an hour it probably 4 hours work so 120 .Thats still a bargain, commercial businesses can get charged 500 or more for something like that.

Its probably not worth it though if the system lasts another 4 yrs I will be moving out and not taking it with me!

[lomb]

Your probably right but will it last 4 years? Reason fridges last so long is they are sealed systems factory made, it all goes pear shaped when the systems have to be assembled onsite where the human element comes into it.
Why 4 years? Property will probably be rock bottom in 2 or 3 years , probably best to start saving for that time, get a good credit rating, it hasn't really hit yet in the UK but will soon.

[back2space]

Your probably right but will it last 4 years? Reason fridges last so long is they are sealed systems factory made, it all goes pear shaped when the systems have to be assembled onsite where the human element comes into it.
Why 4 years? Property will probably be rock bottom in 2 or 3 years , probably best to start saving for that time, get a good credit rating, it hasn't really hit yet in the UK but will soon.

Well I rent at the moment so hope to buy my own place about that time, im 27 nearlly so dont want to be renting too much longer... its dead money.

The unit is about 3 yrs old hopefully it should last longer than that. I was told should last 10 yrs really.

[Prince Vaillant]

Well I rent at the moment so hope to buy my own place about that time, im 27 nearlly

:D are you Adrian Mole? :D:D:D:D;)

[lomb]

... its dead money.



So is interest:)

[back2space]

So is interest:)

Im sure many would agree that owning your own house and paying a mortgage is better than renting.

I dont own any part of the place I rent whereas with a house those monthly mortgage each pay for a part of that house :)

[Quality]

Yep that is the whole idea:confused:

[lomb]

Im sure many would agree that owning your own house and paying a mortgage is better than renting.

I dont own any part of the place I rent whereas with a house those monthly mortgage each pay for a part of that house :)

Depends, of course it depends what part of the cycle you buy in, what interest rates will be, rent cost versus mortgage etc. Id far rather pay 400 in rent than 900 on a mortgage where the extra 500 is paying off the loan and say only 300 is for example.

[back2space]

Depends, of course it depends what part of the cycle you buy in, what interest rates will be, rent cost versus mortgage etc. Id far rather pay 400 in rent than 900 on a mortgage where the extra 500 is paying off the loan and say only 300 is for example.

Yeh but why would you get a mortgage that costs £900 unless the property was worth that and the majority was paying off the loan/interest.

I pay £575 in rent for a 2 bedroom flat but I have friends who pay nearlly £1000 a month to rent a city centre apartment... its madness! THey could own one for that much!

I have another friend who has a beautiful 5 bedroomed house with loft conversion and pays less than me on his mortgage so I guess

Its about being sensible isnt it! Anyway lol were getting :off topic:

[back2space]

From what the engineer has said the valve is not able to close all the way, he changed the units over on the PCB board and the fault remained on the same unit so its not a control issue.

Right guys!

Had my engineer over to swap over unit B to port D.... solved that problem.

Now the heating performance has improved as less refrigerant going to unit D when it is supposed to be closed/open 10% however a new issue has appeared.

When units A & D (both same style indoor unit) are both at thermostat off and unit C is at thermostat on the coil temps are being weird again. Unit A will have a coil temp of whatever unit C is meaning the fan will stay running even though its not calling for heat. Unit D (newly swapped over) will have a coil temp of 26C and the fan will pretty much stay off all the time. (length distance between unit A&D are about 5metres. If I turn unit A&C to thermostat off and unit D to heating the coil temps will be the same on units A&C (approx 38C) however if I turn C&D to thermosat off and have unit A heating then coil C will match the temperature of the unit at thermostat on but D will be cooler at about 26C.

The ones that run at 38C mean the room overheats

Very odd behaviour but seems unit to EEV D that it runs cooler. Also the connector plug for this EEV D is smaller than A, B & C. so less wires going to the board from the plug.

Now after ive confused you all with that can anyone offer an explanation? We have told LG who seem baffled by it as really the EEV's should all be behaving like EEV D as the EEVs only open about 10% on units that are thermostat off or turned off to avoid overheating of the room, just wondering why all the others apart from D get as hot as the ones that are calling for heat.

Much appreciated and thank you as per usual :)

[back2space]

LG Technical have said its possible that from all the engineers that have dealt with the unit if it wasnt initially installed properly then its possible there are flakes in the pipework from the brazing because the pipework was never blasted with nitrogen when the first guys fitted it and this could be restricting the EEV's.

I questioned why all the eevs close down in cooling and pipework stays at ambient they state that it will be more noticeable in heating.

They have also advised to check the coil probes however 1 out of the 3 units have had new coil probes a few months ago and that is one of the units that allows the coil to reach the same temperature as the one that is calling for heating.

[terminator]

Might be worth changing the coil probes anyway - after all, it's them that tell the electronics and therefore the eev's what to do.

How many brazes were in the system? - I would not have thought there would be many on your installation.

[back2space]

Might be worth changing the coil probes anyway - after all, it's them that tell the electronics and therefore the eev's what to do.

How many brazes were in the system? - I would not have thought there would be many on your installation.

Not sure, there are a few corners and pipework was joined on for the back room due to the pipe length.

[back2space]

Deleted as new post opened.

[tgbusse]

up that was awesome

[Karl Hofmann]

Oh 'twas on the Monday morning when the 'fridge man came to call, they'd painted over the gas tap, I wasn't getting gas at all.....

If thirty quid an hour is outrageous, then I shudder to think how much you paid for the other bunch of knuckle draggers...