Trane Chiller: Noisy Oil Separator

[meab]

Hi.

Carried out an oil Change on a Trane TRA Screw compressor. Drained old oil Charged new oil 8 Ltrs as specified on Name Plate used Trane 025E oil as Specified and after starting the system the oil separator developed a new very loud whinning noise. What could be the cause of this. Please advise

[goshen]

Hi.

Carried out an oil Change on a Trane TRA Screw compressor. Drained old oil Charged new oil 8 Ltrs as specified on Name Plate used Trane 025E oil as Specified and after starting the system the oil separator developed a new very loud whinning noise. What could be the cause of this. Please advise
Hi does this noise continue when comp is loaded??

[meab]

Yes the noise does not stop have been running the unit with the noise

[serviceman]

reopen the valves of oil. which model of machine is it? Oil 8lts rtaa080 is a machine?

[NoNickName]

Two reasons:
1) the oil heaters are touching together and vibrating when the compressor is running
2) the internal baffles are coming loose and vibrating against the case.

In the first case, you can try removing one or more heaters. In the other case, return the oil separator for repair.

[meab]

All valves open unit running but noisy

[meab]

Oil Heaters OK. may need to check the baffles as per your advise thanks

[meab]

Unit Model No RTAB 212

[serviceman]

low flow of oil is causing the compressor is very noisy, recover the refrigerant and verify that no lines are blocked lubrication.

[meab]

Hi have tried all the above suggestions. Carried out an oil change to another system and again the same noise has resulted. Do not understand why this should happen

[NoNickName]

Did you inspect the baffles?

[meab]

Not yet checked baffles

Although i am surprised would fresh oil effect the baffles in 2 machines,

[NoNickName]

No, you should have checked the baffles before changing the oil. No effect by fresh oil. My first suggestion was to check baffles (scroll back in the thread). I still guess the cause is related to badly welded baffles.

[Magoo]

Do not know the actual machine, but do they have coalessers fitted, sounds could be from that they have shifted or burst out and flapping around. Why, I would not know.

[meab]

The Units are Trane Chillers Model TRTAB 212 with 2No. Screw Compressors Model CHHN060KEN070A.

What are Coalessers? do not know these would they have another name?

[NoNickName]

Coalescer is the other name of the oil separator.

[Magoo]

They are fitted inside oil separator as a last stage of separation, larger vessels have access covers that lets your access them.

[meab]

Ok then these separators are welded type can not see inside unless cut open

[NoNickName]

Baffles may be pulled or pushed from the inlet manifold, by using a hooked rod or by boroscopic inspection.

[meab]

Ok will check and see if can do the above and get back to you

[meab]

any one with any other suggestions

[imran ansari]

Replace oil filter built in compressor and charge 10 litre instead of 8 and check

[imran ansari]

Hi.

Carried out an oil Change on a Trane TRA Screw compressor. Drained old oil Charged new oil 8 Ltrs as specified on Name Plate used Trane 025E oil as Specified and after starting the system the oil separator developed a new very loud whinning noise. What could be the cause of this. Please advise
if problem remain then recover refrigerant and cut oil sperator from bottom and check buffle

[meab]

ok thanks will try that and get back to you all

[yorkman_gr]

Magoo are u working with FRICK and SABROE compressors?

[choochoo!]

check oil level using 2x 1/4" hoses and a sight glass, how much oil did you drain? you should only put back what you have taken out. if oil plate charge is 8lts you should take into account the oil cooler! the min oil level from bottom of seperator is 150mm and max about 500mm. Check level 5mins after machine has stopped to allow oil level to settle. (sounds like not enough oil in sepator) GOOD LUCK.

[meab]

checked oil level above required oil level more than 500mm

[Magoo]

Hi York man,
generally work on Mycoms with re mote oil separators, vertical. But do as well work with Frick and Sabroe screw and recips.

Meab.
are you confusing an oil separator with a discharge muffler. Just a thought. Like I said earlier I do not know the machine. If a discharge muffler they can have baffle failures and make one hell of a noise.

[serviceman]

trane coalecentes not use filters, oil separators are sealed in the noise is really the separator or the compressor, as I said at the start if the oil supply line to the compressor is blocked causing the compressor is very noisy. ondensador Czech saturated temperature and oil temperature if less than 5 ° f the oil filter change, high oil temperature also causes the compressor is noisy

[BekTek]

Any other diagnostics on UCP2 controller?
I agree with the previous poster. Restricted oil makes these compressors extremely noisy (the good thing is that they can take some abuse but don't try to pull them into a vacuum). Make sure the oil isolation valve on the supply side has come off the front seat.
Look for a drawing of the oil internals for this compressor. It is possible the master oil solenoid is not picking up. Is it powered? Master oil solenoid will provide oil for rotor coat as well as bearings. Is it making adequate pressure (pumping)?
You should be able to feel the hot oil start to come out of the oil separator in a short time after a cold start up.

[meab]

Magoo

It is an oil separator and am not confusing for discarge Muffler

BekTek

Yes oil pumping oil temp ranges between 38 and 41 degrees centigrade

Thanks

[chiller prince]

most likely is the oil separator baffles plate, i have come across a detached plate and it made a loud hammering noise......

[D.D.KORANNE]

could be excess oil in the separator which may be knocking in the separator ....?

[FreezerGeezer]

Could be. I have it in the back of my head that those separators can be picky about the oil level being within the limits. Unfortunately it's too long since I worked on them to remember.
Hopefully one of the still-at-Trane guys'll be along soon. :)

[meab]

Hi Guys

a thought has occured to me and decided to share and get your suggestions. could it be that the new oil we have just put into the system is too light and need to put in some heavy oil as is done in motor vehicles after a few years of use.

[NoNickName]

Hi Guys

a thought has occured to me and decided to share and get your suggestions. could it be that the new oil we have just put into the system is too light and need to put in some heavy oil as is done in motor vehicles after a few years of use.

No. Compressors aren't internal combustion engines. And even if they were, here the noise isn't coming from loose components by wear and tear, as far as we know.

[meab]

why can noise not be could be carried into the separator and we could be hearing it there

[NoNickName]

I don't see the logic behind the concept "noise from separator = higher viscosity oil needed in the compressors". But if you do, go ahead.

Some times the easiest way is the best way: "noise from separator = separator noisy".

[FreezerGeezer]

Which makes me wonder - is the oil in there the proper Trane oil? If it isn't, that may be part or all of the problem.

[meab]

Guys
thanks to you all for your suggestion i pumped in little more oil level now at 600mm at 100mm more than required. Noise level reduced but now unit trips on oil system fault. Oil temp at 28deg centigrade ambient temp at 32 deg centi. Any suggestion and once again thanks for all your much appreciated advise.

Thanks

[NoNickName]

28°C oil temperature? Too cold and probably too thick. Still convinced that problem is a baffle.

[meab]

but noise now eliminated although you are right oil temp too low and mind you both heaters working

[NoNickName]

The noise is gone because the oil is cold and thick and behaves like a hydrodynamic damper. Oil shall be in the range 60-90°C. You are probably experiencing liquid flashing off from oil or excessive and uncontrolled remote cooling, if any cooler is connected to the oil circuit.

[serviceman]

could expose the temperatures and pressures that will appear in the panel to see how the machine is operating

[meab]

The oil cooler is the design oil cooler on the top of the condensor

[NoNickName]

The oil cooler is the design oil cooler on the top of the condensor

So what? Can't it be wrong?

[hoodemar]

hi!
i had the same problem with a train unit but model was different. is there any oil line under the evaporatr comming to the compressor? and when u mentioned the noise did u check the oil? i mean it was still in the oil separator or it was already goes to condenser? there is a service valve for oil near the sperator. when u open this valve oil is comming? i think no.

[meab]

No NickName i do not think the design could be wrong we have four chillers on the site and am sure not all can be wrong.

hoodemar yes there is oil in the separator as checked with the 1/4" hoses and sight glass

[NoNickName]

28°C oil temperature is wrong. If all of them are as cold as that, they are all wrong.
That being said, I'm unsubscribing the thread.

[meab]

No i think you not understand me the rest of the chillers temp range between 45 to 55 degrees C it is only the unit that i topped up extra oil that has the low temp the low temp has been brought about by the additional oil that i put in to stop the noise

[hoodemar]

No NickName i do not think the design could be wrong we have four chillers on the site and am sure not all can be wrong.

hoodemar yes there is oil in the separator as checked with the 1/4" hoses and sight glass

at my problem, oil was completely going to the evaporator and there was a pipe 1/4" was comming from evap to compressor. also there is a small filter on this line. Oil filter was dirty and this small filter was dirty. so oil was not turning back to the separator and separotor was completely empty.

ur situation is different, because u have oil in separator. is there any mesh? did u see anything in the drier filter? or in the oil filter?

[That's too cold]

I use to work on these alot and trying to get my memory together, make sure all the service valves for oil flow are open. From memory if one service is closed it will restrict oil flow and cause the bearing to whine loud. When checking oil level, make sure all valves are open and there is no ***** pressure boiling off differential in the system. Let the oil level stablize in your ***** hose sight glass for 15 minutes. If you are for sure there is the right amount volume of oil, then my very last thought is the centrifugal baffles are loose.

[meab]

Thanks to all of you for your most valued suggestions

[serviceman]

Question:

the machine's use to brine or comfort?