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Grizzly
17-07-2010, 09:01 AM
I cannot criticise to much because I have as they say been on both sides of the fence.
Although the company I work for is large, we are fortunate in that those of us that are normally closest to the customers have an input when it comes to the how, when, where, etc. affecting how a job is priced.
Plus the management above me are extremely competent Ex Engineers.
Which is a great Help!

My reason for clarifying the above is because I am witnessing more and more appalling decisions from rival company management.
I wont name any because that's unfair to the good guys.
The latest example:-
Myself and my supervisor were asked to inspect a chiller with problems. As we did not have a contract,

we asked for the cost of 2 men @4hrs each to be covered.
When we met the relevant managers on-site they explained that the particular chiller had, had problems for many months.
Where the BMS settings had been set to a 10c plus offset on the LWT. To stop the chiller tripping on various faults including LP.

Basically the other company in question had ended up quoting over 2000. To remove the refrigerant, trace with nitrogen and repair the "Leaks".
Prior to recharging the systems.

This quote was despite the Original inspecting Engineer Said he felt the problem was a Faulty LWT Probe.
Therefore it was no surprise that they wanted a second opinion!
Their engineer was spot on!

I changed the probe for a new one off of my Vehicle and we gave the chiller a complete checkout!
Even identifying the cause of a rouge BMS Chiller fault Alarm. Which had be a source of irritation to the customer for ages.
The customer was extremely pleased,saying he intends to take out a maintenance contract with ourselves.

"Oh! and by the way the Huge group that he us part of. Has their Maintenance contract up for renewal and would we like to quote?"

All because someone somewhere got greedy and underestimated the customer.
I feel sorry for their engineer he was spot on.
But no-one chose to listen to him, I assume.
And guess what, I don't suspect that company will be asked back in a hurry?

Long may they continue with their style of management.
Grizzly

monkey spanners
17-07-2010, 03:55 PM
I've seen it form both sides, a company i used to work for employed salesmen who would say pretty much anything to get a sale (we ended up fitting a sink on one job), who wouldn't allow enough time to do the job and when it wasn't finished on time and over run on costs we engineers got the blame.
I've also been called in for second opinions on systems and found compressors that were infact ok etc, and wondered if it was incompetance or dishonesty at work.
I think the trouble comes when people like money more than doing a good job fairly.

Grizzly
17-07-2010, 04:41 PM
I've seen it form both sides, a company i used to work for employed salesmen who would say pretty much anything to get a sale (we ended up fitting a sink on one job), who wouldn't allow enough time to do the job and when it wasn't finished on time and over run on costs we engineers got the blame.
I've also been called in for second opinions on systems and found compressors that were in fact OK etc, and wondered if it was incompetence or dishonesty at work.
I think the trouble comes when people like money more than doing a good job fairly.

Well Said!
I know of one employment agency (sorry Facilities company)!
Who are only interested in the Very large accounts.
Everyone else can whistle!
Grizzly

chemi-cool
17-07-2010, 06:26 PM
.
I think the trouble comes when people like money more than doing a good job fairly.

Thats exactly the point!

And thats why I work for myself and my beloved ones.

When you do the job right you get a free sales person on your side. Than there are no money problems.

djbe
17-07-2010, 08:52 PM
Thats exactly the point!

And thats why I work for myself and my beloved ones.

When you do the job right you get a free sales person on your side. Than there are no money problems.

Agree 100 percent.

eggs
17-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Grizzly

Just playing devils advocate here....

Perhaps the previous company have had lots of silly un-billable call outs in the past. You know the sort. "My AC isn't working", "try turning it on" and were looking to recoup some costs ???

Right or wrong, I know that I have been given the right royal run-around by some clients and when the time has come.......they have paid.

Eggs

Brian_UK
17-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Back in the days of the national money grabber I was cautioned for not making enough money on extras.

Comment such as eng.1 has fitted X compressors and eng.2 has done so many fans etc.

My response was that I can't sell compressors if the ones on my patch hadn't broken; they took that as a poor answer.

eggs
17-07-2010, 10:57 PM
Back in the days of the national money grabber I was cautioned for not making enough money on extras.

Comment such as eng.1 has fitted X compressors and eng.2 has done so many fans etc.

My response was that I can't sell compressors if the ones on my patch hadn't broken; they took that as a poor answer.

I think this is where you need to draw the distinction of whether you are a fridge man or a business man.

I can guarantee you Duncan Bannatyne still sold ice creams to fat kids even though they clearly didn't need one.

The question is: Do you want to be rich or do you want to be a slave to your customers?

The national companies you speak of have to answer to their shareholders.....who want to be rich.

Eggs

Magoo
18-07-2010, 02:23 AM
Reality is price gouging to cover all the shinny suits in high places, generally called overhead costs.

Grizzly
18-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Actually eggs.
I think our industry does not charge enough most of the time.
Hell! if your a car mechanic the work comes to you. (UK average 70.00 to 100 an hour ).
Plumbers and washing machine repairers, are something similar I am led to believe.
And yes your argument stands up.

We are mostly answerable to someone, but as Magoo also says the bigger the company the more (overheads!) Good point!

If you are any good I am sure you will not be out of work.
Chemi. Working for yourself can be brilliant and rewarding. ( been there twice). And long may everyone that does it continue to do so.

And you can have loads of work but if no-one is paying you "Poof! Your gone!"
There are benefits to working for either large or small companies.

When i am on holiday I am not worrying that I am not being paid.
And we sure cover the whole market on the forum.
It's just that I suspect everyone is being squeezed.
A good engineer will resolve issues sometimes a lot faster than a less experienced one.
But to his company who earns them the most money?
I suspect it depends upon the type of contract.
I will continue to do what i have to to earn a shilling.
But it won't be me cheating a customer!
I like being asked to tender or have positive comments from customers.
Eventually more should follow.
I understand your comment Brian.
I have a friend who asked his Boss one day why, He was driving around fixing.
Basic faults that a decent engineer would not leave?
Answer I have lots of filter changers who are cheap and a couple at your level because you are expensive!
Brian the type of management you describe is rife, but speak to one of those managers nowadays and they are bricking it!
Action speaks louder than bluff no matter how shiny the suit.
Grizzly