Ideas Needed For Cooling My Glass Blowing Studio

[JontheFisherman]

Hello everyone I sure hope all is well.

I am trying to figure out how to cool my studio so I can work during the day and not have to work third shift. We all know the world revolves around 9-5.

My studio is a 16'x8'x8' room with two workstations, each with a 600 cfm ventilation hood over them. This room is in a warehouse about 50'x100' and it gets really hot in there :( During the day it's 90 to 100 degrees outside and the flat, black roof seem to amp that heat up some inside the building. I have tried to have the ventilation running all day to keep the hot air from building up but that hasn't seemed to help. Guess it's not enough. This is before I fire up my torch and kiln. That doesn't happen till 10 PM when it's 70 to 80 outside.

So I wanted to ask some people of experience what I could possibly do to cool my self/shop so i can work during the day?

People have suggested "Just put a window unit in there" and I think if I did that it would be cool until I cut the vents on and then all that cool air will be sucked out and replenished with hot air from the warehouse. Then we are beck to square one. I have read of some people putting the unit in the wall under their bench and blowing at their legs. Others have used ducting to connect their clothing to the window unit.

Another suggestion I have seen is installing a radiator in the wall, pump cold water through it and make all the make-up air go through it before it enter the studio. I know a bucket of ice would melt and be a room temp in less than an hour in these conditions so a chest freezer or such would have to be used as a holding tank of some sort... Would coiled lines in the freezer than run to the radiator work? Maybe it just crazy talk but I have no idea.

I'm just throwing out the ideas I have had and I look forward to your suggestions.

In the future, when I build my own house and studio, I will look into geothermal heating/cooling but I think it would be too pricey for me atm but nevertheless, please post your comments about it.

Thanks everyone and have a good day

Jon

:cool:

[sedgy]

hi jonthefisherman, it seams you are fighting a loosing battle there are some things in life that just cannot happen, you say the workshop is painted black, you say it can be 100 degrees outside just what temp do you went inside? to insulate the workshop, and have a-c fitted, maybe
8,000$ my best advice take up fishing < in alaska<

[Tesla]

Hi Jon
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you need process cooling. It could be expensive to cool the entire area, so like in industrial processes we would introduce cooled/cooler air at ground level and allow it to be vented at the roof. I am not speaking from experience in your area just theory, but an idea. I'm sure many members will add to.

[JontheFisherman]

hi jonthefisherman, it seams you are fighting a loosing battle there are some things in life that just cannot happen, you say the workshop is painted black, you say it can be 100 degrees outside just what temp do you went inside? to insulate the workshop, and have a-c fitted, maybe
8,000$ my best advice take up fishing < in alaska<


Sorry for the confusion but it's the roof of the warehouse that is black (my studio is in the warehouse) and I mentioned it because working on a ladder close to it during the day is really hot. The roof/ceiling is only 2x12 rafters, 1x4 slats, and two sheets of tar paper and some tar.

What temp do I want inside? Lets say 70, no more than 75.

I also should have mentioned that my friends and I will be doing most of the work. I have been in construction for ten years before the glass side of me took over. I am insulating right now and with the insulation I got, it has to be R60 or better (I will explain that if needs be). I have an acquaintance who has gently used a/c units they have pulled from buildings for cheaper than new.

You speak of $8,000 worth of materials? What's the materials you speak of here?


Hi Jon
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you need process cooling. It could be expensive to cool the entire area, so like in industrial processes we would introduce cooled/cooler air at ground level and allow it to be vented at the roof. I am not speaking from experience in your area just theory, but an idea. I'm sure many members will add to.


OK, thank you. Process cooling, I will read into that.




A little visual help :) This is something I did a over year ago to have envision my studio. Maybe it will help you envision what I need

3602 <-- *click* The ducting its running to the outside wall

[sedgy]

hey jonthefisherman, yes I see the plan but even this could be better , why not have the unit outside, that would save the extra fan , and do.away with the duckting,
you said about 2nd hand units< better then new units?< most engineers I know wouldent touch one
so then you havent any warrenty ,

[frank]

With such a large space (room within a warehouse), my thoughts would be to provide spot cooling for the operator, rather that try and cool the whole area.

Any cooling should be balanced against the heat load, but this seems impractical here based on costs.

I get the feeling it is the operator that is uncomfortable, not the process.

[JontheFisherman]

hey jonthefisherman, yes I see the plan but even this could be better , why not have the unit outside, that would save the extra fan , and do.away with the duckting,
you said about 2nd hand units< better then new units?< most engineers I know wouldent touch one
so then you havent any warrenty ,


The picture I posted is the ventilation I must have in order to exhaust fumes created from working the glass, to avoid getting cancer down the road. Different combinations of metals give the glass its color, whatever color that may be and a tiny bit gets vaporized when heated up over 2000 degrees in the flame.

So the air handler pictured is constantly venting 1200 to 1500 cfm from the hoods outside.


[quote=frank;194519]With such a large space (room within a warehouse), my thoughts would be to provide spot cooling for the operator, rather that try and cool the whole area.

Sounds good, what kind of options are there available for spot cooling the operator?

Any cooling should be balanced against the heat load, but this seems impractical here based on costs.

I understand. The least I'd like to know are what these options are for future reference. What are the different cooling/heat exchange/AC systems I could consider for what I need to do?

At some point I will build a custom studio in my backyard and I would need to be able to work comfortably year round. If the costs of supplies are 10 grand then that is still feasible. If it's 50 or 100 grand then it's not, lol. I would need to be an artist and not a crafter like I am now for that 6 digit system.

I get the feeling it is the operator that is uncomfortable, not the process.

Precisely and in order to remain creative and productive I need to be some what comfortable.

[Brian_UK]

You could start by installing fan assisted ductwork to connect your workshop with the outside of the warehouse.

The duty should be in excess of your extract fans so that you do not pull in air from the warehouse.

If you were to make use of those second hand AC units then install the evaporator coils in the fresh air ductwork.

[al]

As Frank suggested try spot cooling, before they closed the waterford crystal plant they installed spot cooling for the glass blowers, a flexible duct they could point where they wanted, cooling was from a Breezair unit (evaporative cooling), cheapish to install and minimal maintenance.

http://www.breezair.ie/reference.htm#waterford

al

[sedgy]

hey jonthefisherman , so we have gone fron a bit of cooling to fulll extract, so now we know the 8000$ has gone up to 16000$ like I said before , take up fishing in alaska, now you could save some $ aswell

[Alantrician]

Try digging a hole a big hole under the w.house and extracting cooler air up through vents below the working stations.
Water cooling of air may help.
My friend , in New Zealand, tried this with SOME success.

[JontheFisherman]

hey jonthefisherman , so we have gone fron a bit of cooling to fulll extract, so now we know the 8000$ has gone up to 16000$ like I said before , take up fishing in alaska, now you could save some $ aswell

I'm not sure what kind system I need so I have no idea the cost. I am asking you all for options i have.

As with anyone I don't want to pay to much for what I need, but I need something.

I apreicate the help eweryone has given and I'll look into these options.

[mad fridgie]

If you have compressed air and are only after person cooling, then purchase a vortex cooler, a set of overalls and some small flexi pipe. Shouldn't cost to much

[JontheFisherman]

Interesting device mad fridgie. The vortex device looks like a good short term solution. In the future I will need the whole studio comfortable and I don't think that would work unless I installed several over head and not on personal vests, if that would even work.

The couple sites I saw had small and medium with large being a special order. Guess I find out what kind of cfm the large one puts out. The biggest medium shown was 35 cfm. If a large one won't work mounted overhead I'll try the vest system.


Unfortunately Alantrician, the studio is on a concrete pad and that sounds like a little too much lol. Maybe on new construction


I'll keep digging into these options

[Tesla]

Hi Jon
Process cooling is where the conditioned (cool/fresh) air is introduced from the floor level underneath the worker. It was developed for the likes of steel workers to provide fresh cool air for the dude who stood in the hot spot doing his/her job. On the cheap for your situation you could look at buying some second hand window rattlers (RAC) from google with a fan assist duct work to bring in 100% fresh air from outside into the "return" air of A/C and ducted again to underneath where you work. This would provide you with reasonably comfortable work conditions in that area at a cheap price. This method helps remove toxic fumes up with the heat. Also use a fan exhaust system but ensure there is slightly more air coming in than going out.

[JeffreyJ]

hello I stumbled on this forum looking for some answeres about fresh air in my studio...my set up is about the same I burn two torches under hoods and what I was wondering in a 14'x14'x8' cieling what should I have same pressure coming in and going out or do I need more air coming in. I burn pyrex glass aswell with alot of metals. What Im doing atm is letting the hoods draw the fresh air in, but in my case I made hoods that have freash air intakes above the glass blower faceing the exhaust, and a fresh air intake at the opposite side of the room....please help I have been reading alot about ventalation and can really get no striaght anssweres, I even had a HVAC guy come in and he was like ya I will sell you a filter we use in cigar shops.....really do I need an engineer or something. like I said was just looking for help or a push in the right direction.

and for the guy who needs a cooler shop its tuff whats happening is were burning up so much oxygen with the torches that we need fresh air coming in at a rapid rate the best idea I seen here was the gentleman sugesting cool air at the lower level if you found an answere shoot it my way I would love for a better workin inviroment


the torches I burn are 2 mirages here is links for those who are intrested in knowing http://www.glasstorchtech.com/mirage.html

[SeanB]

First thing I would suggest is to spray paint the roofing outside with silver roofing paint, that will drop the temperature inside by a large amount, with a very minimal outlay ( your builder friends will very likely have the airless sprayer and the drums of silver paint for themselves) and with a very big difference inside with no running costs. Give it 2 coats at least, and cover all the black tar. You can then look at installing some cooling units to provide a lower humidity inside, probably a ducted unit, sans the ducting, drawing outside air in via a very large filter ( under shelter from sun and rain) to provide some of the required fresh air, directed at where you work the most. You will not cool the entire area, but it will be a lot more comfortable for long periods.

[Magoo]

Try portable evaporative coolers for localised cooling, you have plenty of heat and probably real low humidity. They use a lot of water.