Chinese Flake Ice Evaporator Drums

[Harbour View]

Does anyone know about Chinese Flake Ice Evaporator Drums? What are the reputed and trusted Chinese brands? I hear they are very affordable but are they value for money?

Please advise.
Thank you.

[charlie n]

The small ones are OK but do not buy the larger ones with multiple DX circuits. Performance is not up to their claims and proper balance of TX valves can be a problem.

[Harbour View]

I am looking at a 20ton flake ice Evaporator drum, do you think this capacity might have the problems too?

[Magoo]

Try GRANT ICE MACHINES, rather than one install two 10 tonne flakers.

[Harbour View]

Okay, thank you Magoo for your advise.

Would anyone know other common problems faced with 20ton or bigger Chinese Flake Ice Evaporator Drums?

[Magoo]

Both Grant Ice and SnowKey ae China manufacturers.

[Peter_1]

We have some Icesta running, previous Snowkey staff

[Harbour View]

I have heard of a Chinese manufacturer called Icesnow and that the evaporator flaker drums have problems with the gear box. Is it the same with Grant ice, Snowkey and Icesta?

[Peter_1]

Most drums in China are made by one bigger Chinese manufacturer and those mentioned here buy their drums (at this manufacturer) and they assemble it to a whole working unit.

[Harbour View]

so its better to buy from the one big manufacturer right?

[Peter_1]

Doubt you can assemble them cheaper then the mentioned OEM's

[Inttravel]

What can happen to the drums with very cold water supply (+/- 2oC) ?

[Magoo]

Hello Inttravel.
The colder the supply water to flaker the better the performance and output. The critical thing is the soluable salt solution for clean separation from the drum.
Most manufacturers will state volumes based on entering water temps,.
magoo

[Inttravel]

I have experienced with Maja flake ice units, double icing of the drums because of too cold water temperature. The thin ice build-up on the drum becomes very hard and it makes the drum to jerk or vibrate enough to have damaged two gear reducers on 2 of the 4 machines. I agree that a brine solution helps in making the ice more brittle. I think this is why manufacturers rate their machine to a minimum of +5oC.

[Inttravel]

Hi! Maggo, thanks for your reply. I think that most of flake ice machines are used with water temperatures more in the +10oC and over than at temperatures around +2oC. Even the ambient temperatures of the complete machinery has to be kept at at least +6oC. I will have the chance to observe the operation of two 25MT Grant Ice machines operating with ambient temperature of -4oC to +20oC with water temperatures of +1.5 to +3.5oC. They are not using brine injection in their water supply? Any prediction? I will keep you informed of any development

[michaelm]

B”H

<O:p Inttravel,
What is your opinion about realbility of Maja machine. What suction tem-re it is running at?

[Inttravel]

I think you mean "reliability". The Maja machines have an horizontal cooling cylinder turning in a water bath (tank) the ice is removed by an horizontal knife. This knife needs continuous adjustment if they produce at their max capacity. (that is a pain). The following have been told by a customer that purchased a Flake Ice Unit in France with 4 Maja 4100 (4 000kg/day) These in fact where Maja 3100 boosted by 25%. Water have to be heated to at least +12oC in order to run more or less adequately Theur rating of a minimum temp of +5oC appears to be +8oC, but boosted needed at least +12oC. This was a big mistake since it overloaded the machines and their reliability. He adjusted the temperature SST from -20oC to -24oC in order to obtain dry flake ice that didn't stick to the auger. Finally he setted it at -22oC. Still needed an operator to clean the augers at every 2 hrs. This customer regret purchasing these units. Somebody didn't know refrigeration. More, he told me that Maja France refused him to give the knife adjustment tolerances! This is what I know about Maja Units and their water temperature sensivity.

[Inttravel]

Grant Ice 25MT Flake Ice machines and cold water. It appears that two new Grant Ice machines installed lately can not run with cold water (+/- 2oC to 3oC) in cold temperature. Their package installation is simply not adapted to cold weather. I will wait and see how this problem will be solved in the coming weeks.

[Magoo]

Hi Inttravel.
The cold ambient conditions will allow compressor set to over perform and operate the suction condition too cold at the drum, the drum evap temp should be at or about -28'C no less, so you need to control discharge pressure at or as close to + 35 > 40'C.

[michaelm]

B”H<O:p</O:p

Inttravel
What part on Canada are you? <O:p></O:p>

[Peter_1]

I .....This knife needs continuous adjustment if they produce at their max capacity. (that is a pain).

I have at least 10 Maja's running we service at different clients, some are 30 years old and to be honest, I think in my 25 year career, I only adjusted once the knife. :confused:

[Inttravel]

Hi! Milchaem. I'm from the east side of Canada.

[Inttravel]

Hi! Magoo.
I agree, the cold ambient conditions will allow compressor set to over perform . This is the problem. This customer ended up with 25% BOOSTED Maya and have very cold water. Some measurements will give you an idea: supply water temperature from the main line +4.6oC. Electric heaters heat the water and arrive the Maja 4100 at +12oC, tank water temperature with heaters ON is 2.3 to 3.2oC on the 4 units. The cylinder is cooling the water tank. When the supply water drops at +2oC, the water tank temperatures drops by the difference and comes to nearly zero and this is too cold, the drum freeze the water too hard, double icing occurs and it starts jerking. These Maja cannot work with the tank water temperature less than +2oC. Running them with the tank temperature at +/- 6oC will assure you good smooth performance. To boost the Maja 3100 capacity by 25% means that you have to provide 25% more cold to these cylinders that soaks in the water tank and cools it and so on...

[Inttravel]

Hi! Peter One.
What is the water temperature of your installed Maja units ? Do you have boosted ones by 25% ? Maja France agreed on the boosted units they named Maja 4100

Presently, on 4 Maja 4100: after one year the customer had to change the 4 knives because of wear out. Also two of the 4 gearboxes had their output shaft (to the cylinder) broken Gearboxes had to be replaced. This what this customer is experiencing.

My recommandation should be: First: Don't boost the Maja ratings. Secondly, use them where the water is warm in order to have the water tank temperature above +5oC. Then they will run smoothly. On Maja web site, they recommend water supply above +8oC.

[charlie n]

Most of the Chinese copies are based in some part on the old faithful North Star or (smaller capacity) Howe Ice makers. Neither of these will work well with water below 5 degrees. I've had to install small condensers using hot gas to get the water supply up above 5 degrees in some installations. Otherwise the ice makers are too cold and will "ice up" on the rotating gear, nozzles etc.

[Inttravel]

Charlie, I agree with you from what I have seen. Will follow your advice and make sure the water is warmer than 5oC.