R22a to replace R22

[rinsoproud]

Hi,

I used Precision Air of Liebert CM+ with R-22 compressor. But my customer has changed refrigerant to R22a and the cooling capacity drop!

Normally, I charged R-22 5 kg into the pipe at 65/250 psi. After changing, I measured 40/250 psi at 4 kg.

Temperature was rising from 22C to 24C.

I don't know why. Please help!

Thanks,

[nike123]

Who is manufacturer of that R22? Is it Enviro Safe?

[Willem V]

is't maybe R417a or R422..???

[desA]

Sawasdee khun rinsoproud na krub,

Please provide a full set of system parameters for the system under R-22 and this new refrigerant. Describe also the system itself - an a/c, or what?

I think then we'll be in a better position to understand exactly what has gone on.

[rinsoproud]

Hi DesA,

I've got information from my service technician that the system is precision air conditioner named "Liebert CM+" using in the server room. This unit can cool the room at 22degC and the sipply air from the unit is about 12-14degC. It uses refrigerant R-22 for cooling. On normal cooling cycle of compressor, suction pressure is 8-10degC (80-85psi) and discharge is 45-50degC (230-260psi).

Refer to my question, our customer blowed out the refrigerant R-22 from this unit and recharged as R-22a. He said that the unit with R-22a uses liquid less than R-22.

So, I need to know why the system cannot cool as normal. Do I have to modify the system, such as changing new compressor or air-cooled condenser?

[nike123]

Why don't you answer what is manufacturer of that R22a?

We cannot help you if we don't know what is inside. There are few products with such designation.

[rinsoproud]

The manufacturer of R-22a is
Enviro-safe ES-Refrigerants


Weight 39.05
Boiling Point -44.5 F
Freezing Point -305 F
Specific Gravity (water =1.0) 0.5
Vaper density (air = 1.0) 1.52

[nike123]

Your charge of R22a should be 41% of original charge of R22!
Recover and recharge by weight and then take your measurements again.

You don't need to make any modifications.

Here is a list of the temps/pressures needed to troubleshoot a system:

Evap air in temp
Evap air out temp
Low side pressure or saturation temp
Suction line temp at evap outlet

Cond air in temp
Cond air out temp
High side pressure or saturation temp
Liquid line temp at receiver or condenser outlet

The more information provided the more accurate the diagnosis.

[desA]

@ nike:
Can you please explain how you arrived at requiring 41% of the original R22 mass charge?

If you worked off molecular mass, I've added in modified equations below:

The manufacturer of R-22a is
Enviro-safe ES-Refrigerants

Weight 39.05
Boiling Point -44.5 F
Freezing Point -305 F
Specific Gravity (water =1.0) 0.5
Vaper density (air = 1.0) 1.52

---------------------
R-22

Name
ISO Number R22
Chemical Name chlorodifluoromethane
Formula CHClF2
CAS Number 75-45-6
Category halocb
Molecular Weight 86.468
Critical Point
Temperature 96.1 °C
Pressure 4990 kPa
Boiling Point
BP (at 1 atm) -40.8 °C
Glide (at BP) 0.0 °C
Triple Point
Temperature -40.8 °C
Property Range (limits of curve fit)
Min Temp -64.1 °C
Max Temp 64.1 °C
Min Pressure 30 kPa
Max Pressure 4295 kPa
--------------

If using molecular mass:

m,r22a/mr,22 = 39.05/86.468 = 0.452 (=45.2%)

[nike123]

8 ounces Enviro-Safe 22a equivalent to: 20 ounces R22

8/20= 0,4 or 40%

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/45/t/22a-refrigerant/details.asp


.41 lb. of ES-22a is equivalent to 1 lb. of R-22

http://befreetech.com/envirosafe.htm
:)

[EMS AE]

To All:

Need to get some anguish off my chest.

Evaluating/researching R-22 replacements is becoming a time alligator. RH this, ICE that, Hot blah;

And, what irritates me the most is manufacturers of regulated refrigerants have significant data but name brand changes from ASHRAE designations and EPA safety classifications are deeply troubling with reclassification. All the while HC alternative manufacturers/suppliers post data inferring to light commercial/domestic space systems but all data provided on the site refers to automobile applications (12 vs 134 vs something else).

I like the possibility that R-22a has for North American Heat pump installations but one just cannot get blend data for assurances of operation despite we all know its some sort of of mixture involving butane or propane. What else have they in the mixture?

It seems the biggest push on "Alternative Refr" sites is the insurance policy backing the product. Insurance companies certainly have limitations... Somehow I am troubled when the company claims they have never had a policy payout (?). What are the limitations qualifying restitution? They do not advertise any of the insured limitations.

R209 and others certainly have solid potential much of which is nothing new, really. 209 was proposed and experimented on in the 30s. Some sites are so confused they combine data for R-22 low to high temp applications.

Frankly, I haven't the time or the energy to research thousands of pages of PHD material about j/mol/ms (although insightful); I don't have time or energy to read many thousands more pages of mis-titled documents. On the flip side, I find it insulting that R-22a, including other replacement types, website market to boneheads with insufficient abilities with often irrelevant or convoluted data.

Somewhere at some time someone has to classify, centralize, and disseminate information succinctly and properly formatted.

I am neither a rocket scientist nor and idiot. However, it seems these days one must be either accordingly in order to obtain discretely satisfying information suited to your needs.

Simplify the R-22 alternatives into service and long term solutions. And manufacturers need to stop this renaming crap as too many systems out there are becoming isolated because of refr charge type and name.

On this (RE.com) site I read hundreds of stories and stated problems whose root-cause should not be blamed on blamed on techs, rather the many horrors could be adverted if refrigerant types and lube classifications where uniformly established spectrum wide.

Any thoughts?

[pwned]

Isn't the charge volume based on liquid density rather than molecular weight?

Also, I think pure propane behaves very closely to R22, however both R22a and propane exposes you to liability.

tamahereforum.wordpress dot com/2010/07/15/alert-on-after-2nd-coolstore-blast/