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back2space
17-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Guys need your backing and expertise here.

My friend is going to have air con fitted to his conservatory for heating in the winter.

he has been looking at the cheap and nasty self install units as these are about £150 cheaper than the same powered LG unit at trade price!

Can you guys give me some reasons to go back as to why not to go for this cheap tat and the lowest he should be looking at for cost is lg.

His price range he was looking at spending about £500 on the unit and needs a 5.5kw unit. I have said you wont get a unit for that ammount and even LG isnt that cheap and then he showed me the link to the cheap self fit unit.

I have explained that its non inverter, it also will not heat very well below 5C whereas even lg is rated down to -15C and works very well at low temps.

Thank you.

thebigcheese
17-03-2010, 09:06 PM
sometimes doing a job for a friend can be nightmare.

in simple terms try and relate it to something he knows alot about

because in his eyes a units a unit

back2space
17-03-2010, 09:09 PM
sometimes doing a job for a friend can be nightmare.

in simple terms try and relate it to something he knows alot about

because in his eyes a units a unit

I know I have mentioned about parts, efficiency etc etc.

I think hes going to go with LG as that is his price range as I can get 30% off prices from LG direct so it works out a good deal for him.

hes also looking at getting a 2nd hand daikin which he has been quoted as £600 including the install as well its an inverter as well.

croc1774
17-03-2010, 11:18 PM
he can get a 5kw fugitsu or toshiba for £500

Makeit go Right
17-03-2010, 11:53 PM
Well, there is only so much you can do to persuade a customer against wasting their money. Some are bent on wasting money any and every way they can, and your good efforts are just annoying them.

Reminds me of a John Wayne film where big John told some kid to stay away from his vicious dog, as it would bite him. Sure enough, the kid went on with it….big John said nothing more. After the bite and scream, big John (nearby) got accused and he explained something like: “I told him the dog was vicious and to stay away. He can take my advice or leave it; it’s up to him. It’s a free country and he can do what he likes.”

That probably wouldn't cut it with our Health & Safety nannies, but I do like the attitude.

All you can do is make sure the customer understands your helpful words of advice. After that, it is a reasonably free country and he has every right to get himself bitten. Just don’t be present when he starts screaming, as this kind of person will blame you for not doing more to help him.

back2space
18-03-2010, 02:13 PM
he can get a 5kw fugitsu or toshiba for £500

really... Where from. Do u mind posting any links?

fridge doctor
18-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Can anyone name a single good reason why an inverter should be considered for a domestic application?

These things were made for close control applications and one's that run 24/7, otherwise any power consumptiion benefits are pie in the sky. Add to this the incidence of breakdown of the boards (even Daikin) and you have a way over-engineered piece of kit for a ridiculously simple application. Just my opinion of course.

back2space
18-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Can anyone name a single good reason why an inverter should be considered for a domestic application?

These things were made for close control applications and one's that run 24/7, otherwise any power consumptiion benefits are pie in the sky. Add to this the incidence of breakdown of the boards (even Daikin) and you have a way over-engineered piece of kit for a ridiculously simple application. Just my opinion of course.

Efficiency and energy savings, an inverter was not made for close control applications. They were made for energy efficiency and cost less to run than simple on off system.

Why are most manufacturers getting ready to faze out simple on off systems in favour of inverter systems.

Especially air to water systems the system can regulate its output meaning on off cycles are less and less.

The conservatory in question will be used all year round... mainly for heat in the winter but it will be running most of the day in there as they aiming to have this room as an extended living area.

INverters are not much more expensive to buy today than an on/off system. Savings are to be had!

freezetech
18-03-2010, 10:06 PM
if you can convince your mate to go for an inverter he would save the extra money in no time. we installed two units for a customer who wanted proof that spending the extra money he would be better of in the long run
so we put one standard unit and one inverter in same size units same size rooms , use etc put energy monitors on monitored for 6 months 45% saving on inverter compared to standard one ended up changing 13 units for inverters

nike123
19-03-2010, 07:28 AM
if you can convince your mate to go for an inverter he would save the extra money in no time. we installed two units for a customer who wanted proof that spending the extra money he would be better of in the long run
so we put one standard unit and one inverter in same size units same size rooms , use etc put energy monitors on monitored for 6 months 45% saving on inverter compared to standard one ended up changing 13 units for inverters

That comparison could be misleading. You could have cheap Chinese ON-OFF unit on r22 or r407 with poor COP and new top class inverter unit of some Japanese make with high COP in your comparison and result could be even more in favor of inverter.
Real comparison would be with both units with simmilar COP in their nominal rating. There are many inverters which are less effective than some of non inverters.
So saying that any inverter is better than any non-inverter (regarding savings in power consumption) is not always true.

What are the models in your comparison?

Makeit go Right
20-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Can anyone name a single good reason why an inverter should be considered for a domestic application?

Well, how about start current. Often, when an on-off starts up there is a flick on the power to the home, as it takes its (5x) jolt of start current. It's only for a split-second, but it can be anoying if listening to audio or TV. In some bad cases the lights flick/dim for that brief instant -- also annoying.

Inverters, as you know, start up with less start-currect than running-current, so this is much less an issue. Certainly useful in a domestic.

That alone should win the day, regardless of savings on usage.

cadillackid
23-03-2010, 02:24 PM
inverters also maintain a much higher comfort level to the occupants.. properlky sized inverters will have nice long run times and maintain nearly constant room temperatures.. in coolking modes this also means they continue to keep the humidity controlled...

in an on-off system most of them do not have fan on-delays so a good but of moisture and often odors are put back into the supply air until the coil temperature drops enough to begin condensing humidity again...

improperly sized inverters (too small) are a waste of energy as typically most domestic split inverters are inefficient when running flat out 100%..

ive been running inverters in my home for a while now and have no intentions of ever looking back towards on-off..

and my customers say the same thing about them as far as comfort level..

However I do agree they are more complex systems so often there is a lot of mis-diagnosis by un-informed service techs, as well as mis-information on how to design them into a system.. and of course more parts to fail and parts are expensive to replace depending on the units... but the dependable manufacturers are stepping up with good warranty policies on them
-Christopher

Devsan
24-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Can anyone name a single good reason why an inverter should be considered for a domestic application?

These things were made for close control applications and one's that run 24/7, otherwise any power consumptiion benefits are pie in the sky. Add to this the incidence of breakdown of the boards (even Daikin) and you have a way over-engineered piece of kit for a ridiculously simple application. Just my opinion of course.

how anybody can say they are for close control systems only is barmy!!1
i have had daikin inverters in my home for years now and touch wood i have never had an issue with them.
yes they are complex bits of kit but this alone should not discourage anybody fitting them into homes.
some people need to get with the 21st centuary and not live in the steam driven age

Steve J C
02-04-2010, 06:12 AM
Does not sound as if you will make any money either way. Sorry to be mercenary but it is cheaper to walk away. Friend or not, he has the answers but has not heard the question. If you do convince him you will be stuck with this attitude for the life of the A/c. My advice -run like hell!

El Padre
02-04-2010, 11:52 AM
Daikin, Mitsubishi electric, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fu-jitsu, Panasonic, Samsung etc. there are plenty of decent manufacturers to choose from, if you explain to him that the cheaper units will be noisier, far more likely to fail, less versatile controls, and far less efficient to run, at least you would have given him all the information he needs to make a decision.

In some commercial applications, the cheaper units are fine, as noise and aesthetics may not be priorities, but in a domestic application I dont think that the initial saving is worth the risk of all those call backs!

Cheers