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Lc_shi
19-02-2005, 06:48 AM
anybody who known r407e refrigerant? i can't search any information on it.

Argus
19-02-2005, 05:38 PM
It?s an obscure HFC replacement. I?ve never seen it used commercially in Europe (somebody correct me if there is some!)

Some while ago, in the mid 90?s some of the Japanese manufacturers were evaluating it along with R407D. But the rest of the world started using R407C, then it?s moving to R410A.

Try this link to the II, but it?s not free.

http://www.iifiir.org/2enpubouvragesdetail.php?code=88

and

http://www.airah.org.au/downloads/2004-11-01.pdf
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Argus
19-02-2005, 11:37 PM
It?s not difficult, really, Mark.

As I said, it?s an obscure HFC alternative to R22 in the medium/high temperature range.

I found the composition list of the 407 group below in an old set of papers that gives you an indication of the differences between it and the only one that is in general commercial use nowadays, R407C,

It was under consideration in Japan and elsewhere when evaluations of alternatives were getting under way, for small domestic fridges and air conditioners. As most people know, the world has moved on and this year?s flavour is R410A. When I visited there in the mid 90?s they were looking hard at the 407 series in general (and others candidate gases) trying to find a solution to the glide problems that did not involve extensive coil re-design. We (in the UK, and therefore I) were very interested in finding replacements for R22 because, at that time, 2037/2000 was coming out and the writing was on the wall for HCFCs.

I don?t see anyone using it in these parts?? however it is, no doubt, available on special order from the chemical suppliers.

R-407A
HFC-32 20%
HFC-125 40%
HFC-134a 40%

R-407B
HFC-32 10%
HFC-125 70%
HFC-134a 20%

R-407C
HFC-32 23%
HFC-125 25%
HFC-134a 52%

R-407D
HFC-32 15%
HFC-125 15%
HFC-134a 70%

R-407E
HFC-32 25%
HFC-125 15%
HFC-134a 60%


Ic_shi, I hope this answers your queries.
As a matter of interest, are you considering using it?
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Lc_shi
20-02-2005, 02:49 AM
Thanks for your answers.
I've read something about Japanese new product -screw chiller (with 407e\economizer\Lorentze cycle) can get COP5.6. I'm interested to know more about it. Our chiller (scroll compressor\r22\evaporative condenser )can get around 3.4 ~3.6 COP. i want to know where the difference is. Do you have any comments?

regards
lichuan

frank
20-02-2005, 07:00 PM
Lol, I give up. I'm going to go vacuum the lounge


Hi Marc

Are you using a two stage vacuum pump? :D

Leo1967
22-02-2005, 07:44 AM
Hi collegues........here in Italy r22 has been replaced by r407.The range of machines with this refrigerant goes from split systems to watwr chillers.almost all new industrial machines we install or maintain have this gas.Being a mixture we have to charge liquid in order to avoid the breaking of the mix (in the mixture itself one gas is more volatile than the others).The trouble is that it's so expensive and if there's a leak in a system you have to recover the remaining gas and charge again.Have to do such job this morning :(
Regards to everyone

Lc_shi
23-02-2005, 01:27 AM
Hi Leo,
Pls be more specific on liquid charge.i've not used 407.
If there is leak ,how to recover the remaining? make up the leaked component or recharge again? how to confirm the seriousness of leakage? thx in advance :)

best regards
lichuan

Servicefrigo
23-02-2005, 07:08 AM
[QUOTE=Leo1967]Hi collegues........here in Italy r22 has been replaced by r407.
R407 ...............and what?.
Whay don*t you use R 507 ?.
It seems if we have a leak someware we don*t must replace the complete charge in this case.
Any comment about this?

Leo1967
23-02-2005, 07:46 AM
Hi again........yes,if there's a leak the correct procedure is to empty the system and charge again in liquid form.If you charge in gas form inside the canister the mixture will break down as one gas will evaporate before the others.
Having said that, i read somewhere that they've done experiments in some workshop in Spain,they caused leaks in a system and they analysed the remaining gas in the pipes.It turned out that it was a perfect mixture.....pure r407c!
The guidelines however still remain,empty and recharge.
Has anyone ever seen a Hiross superchiller 2000?Once there was a leak in one of such machines that i maintain,to cut it short.....180kg of gas!it's installed in one of telecom italia buildings and i was happy they had to fork out this time! :D
Regards to everyone