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View Full Version : Fox hunting--what is all the hub-bub??







benncool
19-02-2005, 03:34 AM
Here in the US fox hunting would never be an National issue. Game management is done by individual States. Which means that hunting with a dog is legal in Louisania but it may be illegal in Vermont. Wild game management is a State issue.

But it appears to us here in the US that this is a class war. Could a refrigeration technician (engineer) not go fox hunting on the weekend? Would it be affordable? Hunting as a whole--is it affordable to the average Brit??

Hunting is relatively inexpensive in the United States. The licenses are issued by the individual States. It is less expensive to buy a license in the State that you live in. But you can buy a license in another State for more money.

It does seem a shame that a tradition that has endured so long could not be settled by some sort of comprimise.

rbartlett
19-02-2005, 06:14 AM
people who enjoy killing aminals for pleasure are in need of some 'issues' time on a couch..

cheers

richard

Abe
19-02-2005, 09:21 AM
It does seem a shame that a tradition that has endured so long could not be settled by some sort of comprimise.


I " will pray " that you return in the next " term" as a FOX
The sound of galloping hoofs and barking hounds will be just music in your ears!!

:D

WebRam
19-02-2005, 11:06 AM
It does seem a shame that a tradition that has endured so long could not be settled by some sort of comprimise.


I know that ever culture has their own traditions but to me, some traditions need to become extinct and fast.

Killing animals for fun would come top of my list.

chillyhamster
19-02-2005, 11:19 AM
Not that i condone hunting with dogs, it just dosn't bother me. It dose howerer seem to me as ill informed city dwelling folks imposing their views and morals on country folk who have a different lfestyle. Now that hunting with dogs is banned ????? are all these animal rights activists going to go home and take up knitting or some other sedentry lifestyle... NO.

All you fishermen beware... FISH feel pain, and angling is barbaric and should be banned......and to make those poor horses run so fast, it must be harmfull. so should we ban horse racing...dog racing.... and any other "sport" that involves mans control over animals....... :rolleyes:

rbartlett
19-02-2005, 11:38 AM
this 'city dwellers' jibe is plain silly

would I need to be in pakistan to before I was allowed to condemn bear baiting?

http://www.wspa-international.org/site/index.php?page=40

or maybe I should be sitting in the King Edward pub drinking watneys red barrel in costa del sunshine before it dawned on me that bull fighting was cruel??

unnecessary cruelty to animals is not geographical specific it's cruelty the world over.

http://www.faace.co.uk/bfiestas.htm

the more you look into it the more horrific it should seem to a civilised mindset

cheers

richard

chemi-cool
19-02-2005, 11:46 AM
Fox hunting is only an old tradition of the rich and famous of the UK.

The poor fox only plys an un important part and being tore to pieces at the end of it unless its a lucky one.

Itsw the meeting and eating and drinking and sex and power behind it.

Romans used to do the same with prisoners.

Killing any animal for fun should be stopped a long time ago.

Fish may feel the pain (so how come they dont scream?) :D
But its part of our diet, so are cows and sheep and horses and pigs and all other animals we eat.

Bencool, here is some information for you on the issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/449139.stm

Chemi :)

rbartlett
19-02-2005, 11:55 AM
Fox hunting is only an old tradition of the rich and famous of the UK.

The poor fox only plys an un important part and being tore to pieces at the end of it unless its a lucky one.

Itsw the meeting and eating and drinking and sex and power behind it.

Romans used to do the same with prisoners.

Killing any animal for fun should be stopped a long time ago.

Fish may feel the pain (so how come they dont scream?) :D
But its part of our diet, so are cows and sheep and horses and pigs and all other animals we eat.

Bencool, here is some information for you on the issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/449139.stm

Chemi :)

fish don't scream because the're too busy suffocating when out of the water

http://www.state.me.us/ifw/fishing/f-c&r.htm


cheers

richard

chillin out
19-02-2005, 02:09 PM
I am also glad they have made fox hunting illegal:)

I heard on the radio during the week that a local hunting group will not be 'hunting' this weekend but they will be out 'exercising' there hounds . :mad:

The laws are there for a reason and some of which we may not like but however the law is the law.

As for other sports which involve animals there are guidelines in place so the animal doesn`t suffer any unecessary pain or discomfort, but no other sport (at least in the uk) ends with the animal being ripped to bits while still alive.

Latte
19-02-2005, 02:29 PM
Hi Guys,

Fox Hunting is now banned - About time.

Having just watched the news and seen the police arn't and can't do much about it as it is on private land i would like to suggest an alternative sport for them.

Put the fox hunters in a field and let a pack of angry Rotwielers case them about, let them see how the fox feels.

Tradition is good, we are blessed that we have the history in this country that others such as the US doesn't. But like some other traditions, Hanging, burning witches at the stake they live in the past and it's time to come into the 21st century

Regards

Fatboy

Mark C
19-02-2005, 02:49 PM
One thing that escapes this mindset... Foxes are VERMIN. Eradication measures for them should be NO different than that of killing rats, mice, weasels, roaches, etc. So what if they make sport of it? As soon as people's pet cats, little yapping dogs going potty in the back yard, and such start disappearing, people will start to believe differently. Chicken, ducks, rabbits, and other soft furry things will start to disappear as well as the population of foxes increase.

I believe in fast food!

http://www.mboxcommunity.com/Mark/DSC03234a.jpg

Just because YOU want to go buy protein in the grocery does not mean that everyone desires such!

**Placing flak jacket and helmet onto body**

Latte
19-02-2005, 04:20 PM
There is a difference between killing "Vermin" to protect other animals and groups of people going out at the weekend and killing foxes for fun !!!!!.

Yes, i do appreciate that it is sometimes neccessary to kill these animals to protect chickens ect. i don't believe it should be done for for the enjoyment of people on horseback all in the name of tradition. Anyway surely there is a better way to control the fox population that having lots of dogs rip them to shreads.

Oh yes, by the way i am not a town'y, i live in Newmarket, horseracing and country life capital of the UK and as i look out of my window, i can't believe it from what i am hearing but the countryside is not overun with foxes, i can't even see one !!!!!

Regards

Fatboy

Argus
19-02-2005, 04:27 PM
It seems that it is pretty much unanimous agreement from the response from UK members.

It really is not an issue of upper-class twits on horses envied by those who have the misfortune to live in the towns. In this society it is clearly immoral to inflict any form of gratuitous pain for any reason.

Hunting is an issue that was properly debated, legislated and passed by a clear majority in the House of Commons. That?s the way we work in this country.

It highlighted an unfortunate constitutional issue where the House of Lords, for whatever reasons, were able to blocked the passage of a bill that had a clear majority mandate and was an election issue over seven years ago.

The Parliament Act is a necessary curb on the second chamber. When the House of Lords is voted into office they may have more credibility.

The wingeing country bumpkins have had seven years to find other jobs.

A head-clearer for the hunting pack that will carry on business as usual would be the confiscation of animals and vehicles involved in hunting activities, in addition to fines and imprisonment.

The opinions of people in other countries on this matter are interesting but completely irrelevant in this instance.
________
Beat (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Beat)

andrewuk
19-02-2005, 07:46 PM
i have been hunting and personally i don't like it as it is killing for pleasure.
the origin of hunting for man is to feed our selves ,so if you are not going to eat it don't kill it .
ever thing has it's place and perpose in life.

Mark C
19-02-2005, 08:28 PM
There is a difference between killing "Vermin" to protect other animals and groups of people going out at the weekend and killing foxes for fun !!!!!

Ummmmm... No, not in my way of thinking. I shoot ground squirrels in the horsefield and pastures. Yes, I could poison them, and maybe trap them. But I prefer to shoot them. It is fun.

The hunting of Fox is not really any different to my mind. The dogs are just one way of controlling them. Remember, this is actually a time-honored method of doing so, from a country that has essentially outlawed the use of firearms for the same thing. Do you actually suggest poisoning them? How? How would it affect the other animals that feed off of a dead body, thereby poisioning themselves in the process? I'm not getting the rationale here. How else are you going to control the fox? Clubbing them? Trap them with leg-hold traps? How does that affect your sensibilities? Fox will become a predation problem for domestic animals as well as pets in the UK where they are prevalent. We have the same problem with them and coyotes at my parents ranch.

We employ cats to control mouse and rat populations. How is a dog chasing a fox any different? Fox are "cuter"? Because people are involved and make a sport of it is different? How? Turning a "dirty business" into something that gets you excerise, and some enjoyment is not bad, at least to my way of thinking.

I do enjoy hunting. I do enjoy target shooting. I do enjoy ground squirrel thinning... They are enjoyable to me. I would probably enjoy a traditional English Fox hunt too. However, I do not eat them, nor do I think anybody does. I think the fox is actually used to further train the hounds. Not all fox are torn to shreds by the hounds, either. They go to ground and have to be dispatched by the huntsmen, and many escape to run another day.

chemi-cool
19-02-2005, 09:06 PM
Hi Mark,

Would you justified shooting elephants only for the ivory? Rhinos for the little horn (they make some aphrodisiac stuff out of it)?
and list is long.

I have been to a country with no birds in a great part of it, people used to shoot them for "fun".

I know shooting is fun and I've done it a lot but we must look arround and try to let nature a chance.

Vermin should be treated as such and I belive they do.

Chemi :)

rbartlett
19-02-2005, 09:44 PM
what about that other great american field sport -

shooting presidents !

cheers

richard

Superheatman
19-02-2005, 10:26 PM
[QUOTE=Mark C]Ummmmm... It is fun.


I do enjoy hunting. I do enjoy target shooting. I do enjoy ground squirrel thinning... They are enjoyable to me. I would probably enjoy a traditional English Fox hunt too.



I was born and bred on farms on the Queens estate at Sandringham in norfolk...so am of country stock...I disagree with fox hunting....I live in a village in Essex now and the majority of people here disagree with fox hunting.It has been found that when left alone the fox population stablises at a viable level for the food available in the area...the urban fox is perhaps another matter...but whatever... I find the hunting of animals is not uncivilised when carried out for food but cant comprehend the pleasure obviously enjoyed by some socalled civilised humans by observing the terrorising and tearing to pieces of another mammal.Then again I believe in the states that they enjoy executions even though it is an accepted fact that executions do not diminish the amount of murders in a state....nor does the abolishing of the death penalty increase the same.As far as fluffy animals being killed by foxes are concerned we read of family pets in the UK that are torn to pieces in front of their (sometimes) child owners by hounds that are on the scent and have got out of control.
The bleat about hounds having to be put to death and of people out of work is also largely false and trying to appeal to those same british feelings...where is the problem with converting to drag hunts if exercise and country air is all that the huntsman say they want.I wont run on further as I could do so all day...best wishes all...Superheatman.

Karl Hofmann
19-02-2005, 11:45 PM
A days hunt would perhaps bag a handfull of Foxes, if they were lucky. Hardly an efficient means of pest control. Like some of the others here I come from the country, and what bothers me about hunting is not the killing of the fox, in many instances the fox proves himself to be smarter than the hunters but the arrogant attitude of the huntsmen, many times in my part of the world I have driven round a corner to be faces with a sea of muppets on horseback, their scabby old bedford horseboxes parked willy nilly on the grass verges, their dogs and their horses crapping wherever they wish, and generally holding up the traffic of the twentyfirst centuary for their own indulgance. If these people wish to hunt, then I have no real strong feelings either way, but if they wish to use the highways for their sport, then why should they not pay road tax for their horses and hold licences to ride a horse, though I am sure that they have insurance in the event of an incident with other road users.

I am, however concerned at the way that the Government has used this issue to attempt to divide those who live in the country from those who live in the towns, they have tried to stereotype all country dwellers as guffawing bumpkins with more money than sense.

Mark C
20-02-2005, 03:55 PM
Hi Mark,

Would you justified shooting elephants only for the ivory? Rhinos for the little horn (they make some aphrodisiac stuff out of it)?
and list is long.


No, I do not shoot elephants or rhinos for their horns or ivory, nor anything else I shoot. However, I would if they were vermin. And of course, you are equating a fluffy fox to elephants, which is NOT the case here. Elephant and Rhino are NOT vermin. I certainly would shoot them, emphatically, if I wished to eat Elephant or Rhino Steaks. That would also mean that there was a hunting season for them that I in which could partake and it was appropriate for me to do so.

I believe that the bird populations are gone from where you live because the forests and fields in which they derived shelter and sustenance are gone.

Mark C
20-02-2005, 03:56 PM
what about that other great american field sport -

shooting presidents !

cheers

richard

What an insensitive and dumb thing to say....

Mark C
20-02-2005, 04:06 PM
Then again I believe in the states that they enjoy executions ...

Enjoy? Wow, you must think that every man in the USA carries a sidearm and there are nightly showdowns in the streets for "fun"? Suffice it to say that the overwhelming majority, 99.9999999%, of people in the USA do not "enjoy" killing anyone. Executions are deemed a necessity of jurisprudence. How could one ever come up with such a skewed sense of any human population? Prejudice? Demonizing a population so as to believe they are lesser people? It is hard for me to conceptualize this... I wonder, Is it true that the UK has no Orthodontists because all residents of the UK have such ugly teeth?

And how on Earth does this compare to the killing of vermin?

Mark C
20-02-2005, 04:13 PM
A days hunt would perhaps bag a handfull of Foxes, if they were lucky. Hardly an efficient means of pest control.

I do not believe there is anything efficient about it. It is found to be an ejoyable pastime. That is what cause the non-hunters to find it objectionalbe.

The rest are issues that have nothing to do with the sport, and everything to do with enforcing existing laws. If a dog or horse poops in your yard, it is up to the offending party to clean it up? Don't you have laws for this? IS this something that should have been addressed?

rbartlett
20-02-2005, 04:50 PM
What an insensitive and dumb thing to say....



DON'T SHOOT !!!!



cheers

richard

Mark C
20-02-2005, 04:57 PM
DON'T SHOOT !!!!



cheers

richard

Why would I?

frank
20-02-2005, 05:46 PM
I wonder, Is it true that the UK has no Orthodontists because all residents of the UK have such ugly teeth?


What's wrong with these? :D

Superheatman
20-02-2005, 06:27 PM
or how does this if true...I was stationed with a detatchment of theamerican army in germany ..circa 1966 (39 missile regiment)..I found them like any other person...good and bad the same as anywhere else...but a bit in love with the gun..

benncool
25-02-2005, 10:11 PM
What an insensitive and dumb thing to say....


I agree with that.

rbartlett
26-02-2005, 06:35 AM
I agree with that.

i'm with you guy's

cheers

richard