would a change add value to a bungalow?

[fathead]

Hello,

We have a 3 bed, 2 recep, 1 bath and kitchen bungalow. It is well insulated and is all electric - 7 storage rads and 1 immersion water heater on economy 7.

We are quite happy with this. But we will have to sell in 2/3 years time when I can't cope with the garden. For obvious reasons, most people don't like all elec places despite their advantages.

About six months ago I did some preliminary costings about switching to an air source heat pump serving Smiths fan convector heaters. The cost put me off.

However I've just come across something about the Government giving grants for installation and even somehow paying towards the power produced greenly, if you see what I mean.

Does this change the balance of things? I really would value some advice on this please.

[fridge doctor]

Quote "most people don't like all elec places despite their advantages".

A heat pump is still electric.

[fathead]

fridge doctor

Yes, but I suspect that possible buyers would be more impressed with the latest and greatest gizmos. I viewed the idea of heat pumps very favourably at first. A sort of reversed fridge seems so simple and appealing.

Then I discovered this very fine forum and understood just how complicated the whole subject can be and how so often the claimed COP advantages just don't materialise.

But now the Government seems to approve of them. Could they possibly be wrong?

[taz24]

fridge doctor

Yes, but I suspect that possible buyers would be more impressed with the latest and greatest gizmos. I viewed the idea of heat pumps very favourably at first. A sort of reversed fridge seems so simple and appealing.

Then I discovered this very fine forum and understood just how complicated the whole subject can be and how so often the claimed COP advantages just don't materialise.

But now the Government seems to approve of them. Could they possibly be wrong?


Wrong?? Possibly wrong!! our government?? :D

In all seriousness, heat pumps are the future and we will all have them in the
years to come (especialy as gas will run out) but it may take 10 or 20 years for
them to be as readily available in the UK as a normal gas boiler is.

So in answer to your question there are grants available and there are tax incentives as well.

Air sourced heat pumps are very effiecient and will work comfortably in cold
weather but you need to bear in mind that as the weather gets colder and
you need more heating they become less effiecient :eek:

Also in the uk heating air and blowing that around the house is not common
practice and any tempreature changes are felt in air quicker than if it was
water flowing through radiators. If the heat pump went into defrost mode
you would feel the change in temp in the air being blown inside your house.

Warm air is excelent but would the whole system not be as cheap if you
installed a conventinal radiator heating system that was powered by the heat pump??

Also bear in mind that if the heat pump can't supply all the heating you require
you will have to have an alternative source to back it up and that source may
have to be electrical which is what ruins your COP values.

taz.

.

[taz24]

.

Heatpumps combined with alternative sources are the way forward.
If you had a heat pump heating your hot water and a radiator system
or even better an underfloor heating system you would have the most
effiecient system going. Especialy if you combined that with an alternative
source such as a log burning stove or somthing else that takes little
maintenance and will burn Bio mass products or somthing.

Cheers taz

.

[fathead]

taz24,

Thanks for your replies. Very encouraging.

When I first looked into heat pumps I favoured Smiths eco radiators, fan operated, because they were supposed to operate well on low temperature water in small volume. Because of this I think I believed that they would suit heat pumps with their lesser heat output than a boiler. I'd have to look into the whole matter again if I decide to go ahead.

We couldn't have underfloor heating put in as it would be an enormous disruption. The bungalow layout would make it reasonably easy to put in radiators.

Your idea of a secondary heat source like a woodburner as well, is good. We often get power cuts here, because of overhead power lines I think, and we cope by going out and imposing on friends. A stove would be a real asset.

I'm starting to think I need to get a professional assessment of what would suit us best and enhance the property. This forum has shown me that I'm not up to making the right decisions on complicated matters.

I'm rather terrified of spending thousands only to find that something doesn't work as it should and, instead of being an advantage, it has just been a waste of money.

If you think this is a good idea, what sort of engineer or consultancy should I approach?

[fridge doctor]

Fathead, you confute us with your chosen name... You are not a fathead at all, you have seen the light.

Taz has taken the time to explain this concept to you, and has done an excellent job of not getting too deeply involved. But the truth is - as you have realised - whilst it is good for you to have knowledge of your needs, you definitely need expert help when spending the kind of money you are proposing to invest. Keep searching and choose carefully, the guy you are looking for is still fairly thin on the ground. Sorry I can't help more... Good luck

Trevor

[fathead]

Thank you Trevor. I'm just smart enough to know I'm not very smart.

I'll persevere till I find a good consultant.

[lomb]

If you want to add 'value' then fit what the masses look for -a gas boiler if you have piped gas or if not then oil. Forget the grants if its not viable without then it probably wont be with. If you want to go back to the future then fit a heat pump and dig up the floor for underfloor heating with numerous motorized valves and remote thermostats so it can be zoned with an immersion heater electric boost. If you want to not go this far fit multi or single splits and you have a middle ground. I dont think it would add any value it would be for your own comfort. Ps underfloor has many disadvantages of storage heaters. Heat when you dont need it, slow to respond, wasted energy etc etc its horses for courses. Undoubtadly with gas at 3p per KWH , rapid radiator heat up, hot water , cheap servicable systems its no wonder the masses want gas, and oil isnt too much more expensive. The future is undoubtadly nuclear electricity and heat pump heating due to oil/gas being finite but this is probably 20 years away until oil/gas become unaffordable. Warren Buffet rekons that petrol cars will not be available in 20 years that most cars on the road will be electric, frankly i agree with him...

[fathead]

Lomb,

An interesting point of view. I can see your reasoning, too.

I'll tell you what started me on this. I have some money in the bank earning nothing very much so I cast around for a better use to put it to. Into the property was the obvious approach, but it has been extended, rewired and replumbed already.

Heat pumps seemed on the face of it to be a way forward. However, if you are right, it could be that they would not be seen as an advantage by prospective buyers, at least not until they are more widely accepted in general.

I'm going to chew this over for a bit. When the time comes I could spend the money on getting people in to do the garden and the chores and so stay living in a pleasant place for longer.

Decisions, decision, decision.....

Thanks to my respondents. You've been a help.

[lomb]

A wood burning stove is a nice addition I would pay for and seperate your house from the rest. Also fairly cheap at 2000 ish installed.
I would pay extra for split air conditioning heat pump units that give a COP of 4+,nice cheap instant heat but thats the folks on this site, not the masses. Heat pumps for back boilers are for techno geeks:D

[Andy]

Lomb,

An interesting point of view. I can see your reasoning, too.

I'll tell you what started me on this. I have some money in the bank earning nothing very much so I cast around for a better use to put it to. Into the property was the obvious approach, but it has been extended, rewired and replumbed already.

Heat pumps seemed on the face of it to be a way forward. However, if you are right, it could be that they would not be seen as an advantage by prospective buyers, at least not until they are more widely accepted in general.

I'm going to chew this over for a bit. When the time comes I could spend the money on getting people in to do the garden and the chores and so stay living in a pleasant place for longer.

Decisions, decision, decision.....

Thanks to my respondents. You've been a help.

Hi Fathead:)

I rather favour the Toshiba Daiseikai. I fitted two of these in an office enviroment, where in theory they were right on the limit of their capacity. They have never given any problems and the customer thinks they are great!

You would need one split for each room, could be expensive.
If I was rich I would fit them to the bed rooms and use the Log Burning stove to warm the rooms your live in and the central hallway with Rad's.



http://www.toshiba-aircon.co.uk/res_daiseikai.htm

Kind Regards Andy D

[fathead]

Hi fellas,

In the Saturday Telegraph there's a good article about the financial incentives to be offered by the Govt from April 1st to people who qualify as ' mini green stations'. It states that returns of 6-9%, tax free, can be made on your investment.

In our local paper last Thursday there was an article about a guy actually making something of a profit from his green system.

It looks like it's all coming together to make it worth a real investigation on what's available and suitable for us. We have to go away on Tuesday morn for a week but I'll definitely take this up when I get back.

I had a look at the Toshiba website. I hadn't thought of air-conditioning as well as heating but, from the same unit, it does seem a good idea. I must say the website could be clearer....

Thanks a lot,

fathead