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cool#9
06-02-2010, 04:28 PM
Hi to all.
Well i've boring problem with a system consisting of 1 REYQ24M7(REYQ10M7+REYQ14M7) with 17 indoor unit and 17 BSVQ_M.
That was commissionned in 2003 and everything was right until december 2009:
Usually the whole system is under auto or heat mode in winter (so actually) for 16 units and on cooling only for one small computer room
( also supply by a BSVQ but in straight cooling: 19°C set point, managed by an itc DCS601B51).
The computer room unit is a FXMQ32M with a poor cooling efficiency like TH0=25° / TH1=27°c / TH3=4°C and TH4=23°C in normal state.
While using the whole system in cooling mode this is much better like TH0=22°C / TH1=23°C / TH3=6°C and TH4=13°C, and the room is cooling down.
I've already check the following:
Refrigerant charge is right based upon a complete recovery.
The unit is not at the end of the refrigerant pipe.
The version of the outdoor sofware is v785, i upgraded it 3 years ago (for another reason) on both master and slave unit.
The outdoors units were checked by service checker and there's not stepping down control neither retry loops.
I've check hot gas valve outside there's no hot gas bypass (this problem is well known on this series).
I've fully open the indoor EEV and the superheat is still high (23°C) while the 16 other indoors are on heating mode, for example.
I've changed the computer unit in heating mode 30mn and check the 3 way valve action in the BS box and that was right.
I've also try to shut some EEV (on 5 units in heating mode) in the nearest area...hoping i will recovery some refrigerant but in vain.
At last i've tried to put some units in cooling mode (also in the nearest area) and the problem occurs like the computer room (high superheat)
The only way to get a good efficiency is to set the whole system in cooling mode, like in summer, but it's not possible right now.
I do not understand why the system ran well during a couple of years and maybe a dear RE member could help to go ahead.
Kind regards
cool#9

VRVIII
07-02-2010, 10:10 AM
Cool#9,

What was the outdoor ambient temperature when you were testing?
Could this be the first time you have tested the system with low ambient temps?
What were the EEV pulses?
When stating indoor sensor values for TH3 & TH4, do you mean TH2 (R2T) coil & TH3 (R3T) suction?

When operating at low ambient temps in heat recovery mode the indoors operating in cooling will suffer capacity drop, this is normal. The target Te/Tc for cooling mode is very different compared to target conditions for heating mode, the outdoor must then decide target conditions somewhere in between. However the difference in target conditions will increase as ambient temp drops (target Te must be lower than ambient to absorb heat form air), the outdoor will then give priority to heating mode target conditions. This is why VRV is not recommended for computer room application.

VRV3 is the first VRV system that can be installed in computer room application (technical cooling application) as this has independent outdoor heat exchanger control (2 x independent heat exchangers, 2 x fans, 2 x EEV’s, 2 x reversing valve and BSVQ EEV control).

cool#9
07-02-2010, 10:29 AM
Cool#9,

What was the outdoor ambient temperature when you were testing?
Could this be the first time you have tested the system with low ambient temps?
What were the EEV pulses?
When stating indoor sensor values for TH3 & TH4, do you mean TH2 (R2T) coil & TH3 (R3T) suction?

When operating at low ambient temps in heat recovery mode the indoors operating in cooling will suffer capacity drop, this is normal. The target Te/Tc for cooling mode is very different compared to target conditions for heating mode, the outdoor must then decide target conditions somewhere in between. However this becomes difficult with low ambient temps so outdoor gives priority to heating mode target conditions, this is why VRV is not recommended for computer room application.

VRV3 is the first VRV system that can be installed in computer room application (technical cooling application) as this has independent outdoor heat exchanger control (2 x independent heat exchangers, 2 x fans, 2 x EEV’s, 2 x reversing valve and BSVQ EEV control).
Hi VRVIII and many thanks for your reply.
While testing the outdoor temperature was about 11°C.
It's not the first time i've tested the system at low ambient temp.
The EEV pulse are about 2000pls for the computer room and from 200 to 450 pls for the heating unit as they are in thermostat off or under heat demand state.
By the sensor i mean TH2 (R2T) coil & TH3 (R3T) suction.
But i forgot to tell they are 7 floors in this bulding with the same configuration, only the 2nd floor fail with his computer room.
This floor ran well for about 6 years and the heating load of the comp room hasn't change since.
Then maybe i've to check the 2 outdoor sensor temp (on master and slave according to the real outdoor temp) and also change the targets by the Te and/or Tc setting, hoping i will get at least one condensor outside on the 4 heat exchangers...and then watching for any change ?
rgds
cool#9

VRVIII
07-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Hi VRVIII and many thanks for your reply.
While testing the outdoor temperature was about 11°C.
It's not the first time i've tested the system at low ambient temp.
The EEV pulse are about 2000pls for the computer room and from 200 to 450 pls for the heating unit as they are in thermostat off or under heat demand state.
By the sensor i mean TH2 (R2T) coil & TH3 (R3T) suction.
But i forgot to tell they are 7 floors in this bulding with the same configuration, only the 2nd floor fail with his computer room.
This floor ran well for about 6 years and the heating load of the comp room hasn't change since.
Then maybe i've to check the 2 outdoor sensor temp (on master and slave according to the real outdoor temp) and also change the targets by the Te and/or Tc setting, hoping i will get at least one condensor outside on the 4 heat exchangers...and then watching for any change ?
rgds
cool#9

Hi,

What is the outdoor to indoor and indoor to indoor level difference?

Your problem sounds more like an indoor EV problem or refrigerant flow restriction, indoor is unable to reduce superheat and EV is fully open.

I would check the following things listed in order:
1/ Verify correct refrigerant charge.
2/ Test indoor EV – while indoor is operating with EV open 2000 pulses disconnect EV form PCB and loosen drive motor from EV body (do not remove). If refrigerant flow increases and SH decreases the drive motor or pcb is faulty.
3/ Check across BSVQ suction & liquid pipes for temp difference, if you find a temp diff you have a problem with BSVQ.
4/ Check for temp difference between main liquid & suction line and branch form refnet to indoor liquid & suction lines. This would indicate a debris or part of broken component causing restriction.
5/ Concentration of oil has built up in indoor coil causing restriction (very unlikely).

I wouldn’t change the target Te setting as this is only the initial target setting that the outdoor will continually adjust as required.