Who closed the OFN post?

[Greengrocer]

Hey mods I've just tried to reply to the "andychill OFN" post with some factual evidence to support my earlier comments (which had been called into question) & found it closed.

What are the chances of re-opening this post or adding my "right to reply"? Willing to show you what I will post in advanced. PM me if you want.

[frank]

Greengrocer

The thread was reported by some members and requested to be closed. As the OP had, on more than 1 occasion also resorted to using bad language, the thread has been closed. The thread was also in danger of going off track and becoming personal.

I would suggest that you post your 'information' here, for the members that are interested, to read.

[Greengrocer]

Greengrocer

The thread was reported by some members and requested to be closed. As the OP had, on more than 1 occasion also resorted to using bad language, the thread has been closed. The thread was also in danger of going off track and becoming personal.

I would suggest that you post your 'information' here, for the members that are interested, to read.

OK Frank. Here goes.

OK, this in reply to Andychill's comments on the closed OFN Information post who thought I might be making up stories about an OFN accident.
“There are none so blind as those that will not see” – And “there are none so deaf as those that will not hear” or, listen to good advice when it’s given.
No1. I am not involved in, or run, a training company. Nor am I in the business of promoting scary stories for the hell of it. I am in fact an A/C Design & Installation contractor & it is my responsibility to ensure that the engineers that work for us are properly trained and versed in all aspects of the work we do and the safety precautions that apply. If we as a company did not adhere to these undertakings we could be held liable for any accidents that might occur.
No2. I was told the story about the unfortunate guy who died by the past president of the IOR (that’s the Institute Of Refrigeration in case you’re wondering). So, if you think he is lying or spreading malicious rumours you had better take it up with him. However, to save you the trouble and inevitable embarrassment I suggest that you take a look at these links:-
http://www.corporateaccountability.org/Deaths/hertfordshire.html#2008 About half way down the page.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/3833003.stm News story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/3835225.stm News story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4242264.stm News story
While you’re in the process of eating humble pie I suggest you actually read the above reports. The guy in question was using OFN to leak test and pressurize the system he was working on. Somehow the pressure got up to 79bar. It was also stated that the engineer in question was experienced. So, if an accident like this can happen to an experienced engineer what are the chances of something similar happening to someone like you you who have already confessed that your training has a few “gaps”.
You started off by asking a reasonably sensible question and then proceeded to pour scorn on all those who took the trouble to respond with sensible advise.
This isn’t a laughing matter & the fact you think it was a joke is all the more worrying. I suggest you start taking the safety aspects of your work more seriously. Oh. & by the way I'm not your mate.

[ICEmarc]

Looking at what the HSE commented that the OFN was regulated by an old cylinder valve

Is this a proper OFN regulator or something adapted to use?

[freezetech]

i am new to aircon but made sure i got all qualifications before starting also on f gas register- we had same problem with people moaning and groaning when all changes happenned with the electrical industry iam also niceic registered and fully qualified these people need to realize that little knowledge is dangerous and can kill or injure we really need more regulations and get it policed right then we might protect the jobs of the true profesional

[thebigcheese]

had heard about this when it happened...... wont comment on the story

but just makes you think twice sometimes when testing and working with nitrogen.
eg keepin the regulator in good condition

[lowcool]

i know of two instances occuring here with pancake style hermetics,from memory one nearly lost an arm the other was lucky with burns as he had a flame and was lucky not to burn the shop down.

i know the mods have a job but it would have been interesting to read replies

[Brian_UK]

i know of two instances occuring here with pancake style hermetics,from memory one nearly lost an arm the other was lucky with burns as he had a flame and was lucky not to burn the shop down.

i know the mods have a job but it would have been interesting to read replies
Thread has only been "closed" to additional posts, you can still read it.

[Quality]

I am not scare mongering or being malecious - but I can remeber Pressure testing an ancient condensing unit at the back of a cafe we were working at only, to find the remains of a what looked like aliens had come to town in the car park ( I mean the gutts of a hermetic) frosting it`s thing off close by some beige austin allegro - I can almost apprieciate the 2mm steel thing ------ But it has to be experienced and believed that not every system installed is nearly new or even half new, our industry is over a century old it will take more than a few days training to realise this. or apreciate or understand it:):):)

[andychill]

I am not scare mongering or being malecious - but I can remeber Pressure testing an ancient condensing unit at the back of a cafe we were working at only, to find the remains of a what looked like aliens had come to town in the car park ( I mean the gutts of a hermetic) frosting it`s thing off close by some beige austin allegro - I can almost apprieciate the 2mm steel thing ------ But it has to be experienced and believed that not every system installed is nearly new or even half new, our industry is over a century old it will take more than a few days training to realise this. or apreciate or understand it:):):)

Yeah, a respectful reply with information offered in the right spirit and accepted as such. Thanks, Q:-)

Shame the mods removed my reply. I make no apology for using language that can be found in any dictionary and that would be heard in everyday life.

Look, I'm not here to wind anyone up - far from it, but Greengrocers post was provocactive and he got it back with both barrels. My reply and the general tone was purely in response to being referred to as 'a 100% idiot'.

In real life Greengrocer would be nursing a very saw jaw by now - only joking, mate:D

Seriously, It's both sobering and very sad to read about the poor guy who died. I'm not going to say anything other than that about that incident as that would be disrespectful.

In the interests of an ongoing and healthy forum, I'll ignore the sarcasm and apendage-waving response from Greengrocer.;)

[desA]

The poor fellow who died made a number of fatal mistakes.

Beside all the other blatant safety bypasses, the principal one was not personally checking the final pressure that he was taking the system to - himself - whilst being at a safe distance from the equipment as the pressure was raised.

If he was happy to test at 79 bar, then nothing else can be said, though - perhaps the apprentice got himself mixed up.

[chemi-cool]

Sad story, I remember when it happened.

On OFN pressure regulators there is a pressure relief valve that can be adjusted to the maximum testing pressure, Mine is set to 8 bar and it is more then enough.
I use it a lot to locate holes in milk tanks evaporators.

My practise is always to close the bottle and disconnect the hose from the pressure regulator.

Always to use my gauges so the worst is that one of hoses will burst and no way my head.....:rolleyes:

Safety at work, on the roads and at home is the most important thing to remember.

Your beloved ones are trusting you to come home after work.

[lowcool]

gday andy
had an apprentice who ignored the instruction of bleeding off the pressure with the regulator on shutting the bottle off.if not for reasonable health and safety standards the bottle valve may have been broken.anyone tried to skip pepper and salt in milliseconds?let alone the other 20 blokes working in the same area.

cheers brian
gonna have to hit wiki to find out what a mook is,doesnt sound like common language to me.would it be richard cranium op

[lowcool]

andy all i can suggest is to try it yourself or hand it to more competent people with correct procedures in place such as mythbusters or the like.
get a nice fresh e size bottle and knock the valve off

[lowcool]

melbourne mooks symbol.half intelligent i think,what a fool i am.http://www.mooks.com/wp-content/themes/mooks/images/about_bulb.jpg

[Peter_1]

always[/B] to close the bottle and disconnect the hose from the pressure regulator.

Safety at work, on the roads and at home is the most important thing to remember.

Your beloved ones are trusting you to come home after work.

Chemi, we have to pressurize according EN378 to much higher pressures (+/- 45 bars for R410a)
I do the same thing after pressurizing: disconnect hoses after closing the bottle. Was he poor guy using a regulator anyhow? I know 2 cases in 2009 where the sight glass of the manifold blow off in the face and the hand of a technician because both were not using pressure regulators.
Safety at work, on the roads and at home is the most important thing to remember is indeed very true.

[mad fridgie]

This is a sad story, but care should be taken with all these high pressure cylinders (N2, O2 etc) When at college a young chap, had is oxy bottle lying in is van (valve at the back door end) A fan moter fell off his van shelves, broke of the valve, the bottle went through his seat, then him and ending up stuck in the front bulk head.(It continued to flap around) It is far to say that the young man did not survive.
One Gas supplier in NZ know supplies some of its bottles with integeral regulators and protection (this tested at each fill) I do like this idea, I wish it would come standard on all bottles.)

[troymedhurst]

hello,

I've had tried to add a shortcut, but can't until I have posted more than 15 times, to show you guys what I use for all my pressure tests and I never use my gauges when testing R410a systems.

Try googling - javac nitrogen test rig

[edit] Link for above http://www.javac.co.uk/nitrogen-pressure-regulator-uk-pr-16242.html

Actually, after reading these posts, I think I will never use my fridge gauges for pressure testing, even on low pressure applications.

[monkey spanners]

The guy who does my stainless steel welding on dx milk tanks has a couple of stories of people bursting tanks during testing, one was over pressured and blew the evaporator apart (they are basicaly two sheets of stainless spot welded together and rolled to make the bottom of the milk tank), so like Chemi, i don't put more than 8 or 9 bar in these.
The other one burst the cast iron compressor apart with bits of shrapnel showering the young guy working on it. For whatever reason, he had used an oxygen bottle to provide the pressure for the test :eek::confused:

Another tail he told me was of a guy welding up the outer skin underneath a tank after repairing the evaporator, the cork insulation had become soaked in compressor oil and caunght fire, being an ex fireman he knew what to do and blocked all the holes to starve the fire of oxygen and the fire went out.
Now this is where it went wrong, he then carried on welding and all the fumes between the two skins caught fire again and exploded the tank with him under it, he did not survive.

[Clk320_Greg]

Am i mistaken or are some people saying they know of people who have connected straight to a bottle? How is this possible as the hose wouldnt fit straight on? Surely it has to go through a regulator?

Im confused!

[chemi-cool]

hi greg,

It is very simple, you change the fitting on the bottle pressure regulator.

[Clk320_Greg]

hi greg,

It is very simple, you change the fitting on the bottle pressure regulator.


Why tho?

Im not being very clear - sorry. What i mean is is there actually any time that you would want to connect straight to a bottle with out a regulator on?

Or are we talking about going straight out of the regulator onto the system with out going through any other guagues?

[chemi-cool]

Of course not strait to the bottle, it comes with 200 bar!!

After the pressure regulator.

You can either connect your gauges to the pressure regulator or use the gauges of the pressure regulator.

[Clk320_Greg]

I know 2 cases in 2009 where the sight glass of the manifold blow off in the face and the hand of a technician because both were not using pressure regulators.



This is what im talking about, he says they were not useing regulators. Surely the only way to connect to a bottle is via a regulator? Or is it best practice to have a seccond stage of regulation after the one on the bottle?

[Peter_1]

Indeed, no regulator at all on the bottle.
To be honest, when I started back in the 80's, the guy I was working with never used a pressure regulator and I did it the same way for years.
The reduction fitting you place on your gas bottles - if not 1/4 SAE - is exactly the same thread as those on the OFN bottles. Try once.
I can describe how you can do this but I don't think we have to learn bad practices.
It's of course very unsafe doing it this way.
I can give you right now at least 5 techs I know who still do it this way. I even know a company with +/- 20 tech where all were doing it this way before the accident with the exploded sight glass in one's eyes. This guy is sometimes reading this forum.

[thebigcheese]

was in picking up some ofn and another fridgey was leaving bottles back,
he came back in and said oops i left my fitting on that bottle.

he had a fitting made up with a schyder braized into the end of it.

coudnt believe my eyes

i said mate thats well dodgy how come you dont use a regulator.......................................................... well have you ever seen the price of them was the responce.

i think we should have some sort of card to say we use a regulator that is tested, before we can pick up ofn

[Clk320_Greg]

Just picked this up from one of the news articles:

He said he had researched methods of searching for gas leaks on fridges and high pressure nitrogen testing (which was utilised by Mr Ferreira) was not recommended.

Is that really the case? What is reccomended then? Or are they just saying testing at that high a pressure is not reccomended?