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weidit
21-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Hi guys I'm looking at a Mitsi electric vrf tommorow. As far as I know there is around 35 units on the system with a bc box system.

As far as I know they don't have a centralized controller what I was wondering is how a Mitsi centrallized gets wired? Is it like Daikin so is to condenser? As if there is one I want to be able to find it and trace the cable etc...

From what I have been told is there is 8 units in there own open space that don't seem to be working correctly (not heating in winter and not cooling in summer) it's the first time our company has been involves but looking at there call out logs they have all been to do with not cooling/heating correctly not an actual fault code etc...

Was wondering where you guys would first look? And if anyone has a fault code list just incase?

The units have there own controllers some with one controller between a few units and some with there individual controllers.
A friend of mine said that the mode and temp settings may be conflicting with a central controller. Is there a way to find if there is a centralized controller on the system without actually seeing it? I don't want to spend ages looking for one if there isn't one as in total there is over 150 rooms all with different systems running of them any help appreciated
many thanks

Thermatech
22-12-2009, 04:05 PM
The central controller is normally connected to the central control terminals at the outdoor units so if there is no cable connected to the central control terminals then 99% chance no central controller installed.

The first thing you need is the service manuals for the units installed in the building. These systems are just too complicated to try & manage without the information contained in the 300 pages of the service manual. You will just spend all day waiting in the que for the Mitsubishi technical help desk & the customer telling you that he should not be paying for you to spending all day on the phone.
The second thing is to go on the Mitsubishi training courses for service engineers.
They do a 1 day basic City Multi course then when you have done that you can go on the advanced course for service engineers.
They also do a basic & also advanced controls course.

To be fair its a poor show that your service manager is sending you to site with no service manuals or any experiance or any training of these systems.

If I am asked to look at this type of situation I would carry out a full health check with the Mitsubishi Mnet monitor laptop to check the operation of all the units & confirm correct group control set up with the local remote controllers & the centralised controller groups & test units for correct branch address settings.

If you have the original installation layout drawings with all the address setting & group setting schedules you can then double check that against the centralised controller group address settings & check against the current setting as found by the Mnet monitor. Then you can check to see that the room layouts have been changed but ac setup not updated to match current layout.

If you dont have any installation drawings you may have to confirm the location of units by looking at the indoor circuit board for address settings.

A basic understanding of the Mnet address & group setting logic is required otherwise you would not know what is ok & what wont work.

weidit
22-12-2009, 08:09 PM
hi thanks for the reply im booking myself on one of the courses in the new year.

i have since been on site and had a look at the problem.

i found there to be a centralized controller showing 29 units in total with the time set wrong so the units where coming on at 11 till 11 instead of 6 till 6 hence they complained it being to cold in the mornings.

while looking at the system and trying to run them up i found problems with the addressing

the particular office i was working in has 14 units
8 in a open space with 4 remotes
and 6 in there own rooms with there own controllers.


now when i turned on one remote in the open area it turned on 3 units on the centralized controller
these 3 units in the room where in now order and i cant believe they are meant to be like this. there is also 2 remote with error code 6600 which after speaking to mitsu they said this means conflicting address.

after speaking to the client they said they had a power cut a while back and someone came in and re addressed them as they was flashing HO

im thinking that they havent addressed them how they dip switches are setup.
i spoke to mitsubishi and they said this is probably the case.
so im going back in the new year to sort. Office is closed over christmas (THANK GOD!!!!)

I have ran systems like this up before but its always been one remote per unit. so has been fairly easy.

what i would like to know is as follows:
how do i know in the open space area if the remote im looking at is meant to run 1 or 2 units?
i know its not like daikin you cant seem to follow the wires as the communication cables and remotes all go back to the same terminals on the units and dasiy between each other dont they?


many thanks and sorry for so many questions i want to take is as far as i can before maybe getting mitsubishi involved.

cheers guys :)

adamacrinstall
22-12-2009, 08:47 PM
The address for the first unit on the system would be 01 so if you have 10 units on the system the remote will control unit 1 and any unit after untill the next remote is seen by the m net this remote address would be say on unit no 5 the address would be 05 on the remote so the first remote would control units 1 2 3 and 4 the second would control 5 6 and 7 and the 3rd would do units 8 9 and 10. hope you get wot i mean!

weidit
22-12-2009, 08:57 PM
fantastic mate cheers simply when someone tells you hehe.

i guess thats why they allow the communication and remote cables are not volt free like the other makes.

do you know anything about the centralized controllers?
i think i have to do a power shut down and re address all units via remote not on dip swicthes as should have been done when first commissioned.
the client said the systems run fine up until the power cut when someone came in a re addressed via controllers but obviously has done it wrong.

Then turn it back on condenser first, all indoors and then bc box.

will the centralized just pick them all up like it did before?
im worried about the units in other floors/rooms which are owned by another company being affected. will i need to go threw the process on there units?

adamacrinstall
22-12-2009, 09:09 PM
you need to change the address on the sw rotaray switches im having a blonde moment and cant remember but take the cover off and the address are the 2 next to each other that only go from 0 to 9 the other goes from 0 to i think E which is the port no so port 10 would be A on the switch. do change the address settings while power indoor and outdoors are off then you need to open the condenser and do a virgin reset which i can not remember sorry! but once thats all done go to the centralized controller and do a search on the system again i have the settings in the van which is in for repair sorry!!

Thermatech
22-12-2009, 09:40 PM
The 6600 is duplicate address so more than one indoor unit or more than one remote controller has the same address which makes a problem.

Every single unit with an address needs a unique address.

You will need to do a survey of the indoor units to see what the Mnet address is for each one.
Each indoor unit or group of indoor units need the remote controller address to match the indoor unit group & then the group has to be set up with the remote controller assigned to that unit or group of units at the centralised controller.

The remote controller can be connected to the Mnet 30v dc control daisy chain at any location but will only communicate with the indoor unit or group for which it is addressed.

Thermatech
22-12-2009, 09:45 PM
The thing is
Whatever is set locally with indoor unit & remote controller address settings for individual control or group of units control needs to be exactly matched at the group control settings at the centralised controller otherwise there will be a conflict between local control settings & centralised control settings.

weidit
22-12-2009, 09:50 PM
I think no one has changed the actual settings in the switches but held the filter and louver buttun and addresses them differently from there? Is this possible

So if I'm looking at a controller that says 01 and I then have 3 units 01 02 03 then another controller saying 04 with 2 units which are 04 and 05

I think someone has gone to the units held the buttons in and guessed the addresses after looking at first one in room and guessing that they all go 1,2,3 etc round the room wheb they don't.

If the systems worked before the power cut and no one has changed the dip switches can I not just reset systems power?

Thermatech
22-12-2009, 10:04 PM
1/You need to confirm the Mnet address of the indoor units you want to control from each remote controller by visual inspection.
2/ Set remote control address to match by setting to the smallest indoor unit address in the group.
3/ Set up the group exactly the same at the Central controller in the engineers mode.

In this case no need for virgin restart procedure because the central controller caries out the reset of group configuration.

Trust me this is really easy to demonstrate & show on site but not so easy to explain here on this forum.

adamacrinstall
22-12-2009, 10:09 PM
With mitsi you dont address the system like that. If the system worked fine before hand go to the centralised controler and reset that just go to the settings and do a refresh on the address.

weidit
22-12-2009, 10:12 PM
Ok cool I will give it a go.
Thermatech your inbox is full I triend to pm you.

I'm hoping if I turn the power off to all units and turn them back in they will just reset to how hey where before the power cut? And the centralized should pick them up like it did when first commissioned.

When commissioning would you need to go into the address settings screen via the louver and filter button of say you had one remote with 2 units or do you need to tell the remote it's got 2 units via the mode?

weidit
22-12-2009, 10:14 PM
With mitsi you dont address the system like that. If the system worked fine before hand go to the centralised controler and reset that just go to the settings and do a refresh on the address.

Sorry what do you mean by this?

adamacrinstall
22-12-2009, 10:28 PM
when you address the units on mitsi you do so by the rotary switches and if you have the centralised controller when you do a search on the system it will find the address on that system it is wired to and it controls via the mnet.

weidit
22-12-2009, 11:22 PM
Right ok so if you have 1 controller with say 4 units behind it addressed as 01,02,03,04 on there switches you would make the remote 01 then the next four unit are 05,06,07,08 with one controller you would make the remote 04 and the last 2 units have there own controllers they would be 09,10 with the remote being 09 and 10 aswell.

But say I wanted the first 8 units from 01 to 08 in one group on the centralised controller could I do that or am I best setting them as seperate groups.
When you say I can refresh the central controller how is his done?

From what I can see on the system there is a unit in the open area which is meant to be 04 (on dip switch) the unit and a unit in it's own room set to 16 and there both thinking that there 16 (someone has not changed the dip settings but has held filter and swing louver on the remote controlling unit 4 and told it to pick up 16 is this possible? As it's these two that seem to be conflicting.

With this type setup up with say 10 indoor units could you wire the remote into any point of the system and tell it to pick up and unit via the controller (holding filter and swing louver)

Many thanks guys
think I'm going to have to get some help in but would like to leane as much as possible about the system :)

Thermatech
22-12-2009, 11:54 PM
Stand alone system
When system 3ph power up all units in the system carry out electronic hand shake on the Mnet system.
Remote controller Mnet address o4 with look to electrinic hand shake with indoor unit 04 but if no remote controller 05 will also assume control with indoor unit 05 & if no remote control 06 then remote control 04 will also assume control of indoor unit 06
& so on untill the next indoor unit is found with its own matching remote contol.

This configuration can be manually overwriten with any local remote control by engineers mode 'filter swing'
but
this only works untill next power cut
&then
system carries out Mnet logic electronic hand shake procedure all over again.
System with central controller.
The central controller has group settings & each group can be assigned a remote controller.
when this is set for the group this central controller setting overrides any local setting at power up after power cut.

So it is critical that the local group setting with address settings is exactly the same as the group settings made at the central controller & also that the group address settings are appropriate for the actual room layout of the building.

If I was on site with a copy of the floor layout drawings & the central controller & the Mnet monitor laptop computer showing the current address settings this would all fall into place & look completely logical.

But to put simple logic into a form of words which explain so you understand is something not so easy.