New Digi-Cool® Paradigm™ Manifold

[HVACGod]

Haven't been on the RE Boards for awhile - good to see the regulars are still around - good to be back.

I know that for whatever the reason there seems to be a trickle effect between the trade brothers in the States and our brothers over here when it comes to dissemination of new instrument and equipment news and releases - I was surprised to see Nike had posted up the thread on the Get Cool package, but was happy to see it.

Wanted to show you guys this new concept in manifold design, because I think it will be especially beneficial to refrigeration engineers -


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/hvacgod/2-9.jpg
Digi-Cool® Paradigm™ 2 Valve Manifold

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/hvacgod/4-6.jpg
Digi-Cool® Paradigm™ 4 Valve Manifold

I ask you are those a work of art or what? Solid brass construction, specially designed ball valves, push button valve design. Full manifold specifications have been published here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/digi-cool%C2%AE-paradigm%E2%84%A2-explained/

I'm interested in hearing the opinions and impressions of this manifold from a slightly different perspective that I think you guys can offer - definitely would appreciate it.

[desA]

Too complicated, too bulky & awful valve adjusters. I would not buy it. Sorry.

:)

[HVACGod]

Too complicated, too bulky & awful valve adjusters. I would not buy it. Sorry.

:)

Thanks for the reply desA - appreciate it. No need to be sorry, I have no financial interests in the manifold at all just interested, as I said in differing perspectives.

I would like to ask clarification - (1). Too complicated - could you elaborate on this opinion please. (2). Too bulky - are you referencing this from a weight perspective or structure profile? From a structural perspective the profile is 'lower' than current manifold design conventions. (3). Awful valve adjusters - I'm not certain if you are describing the push button design on the 4 valve or the ball valve operators (in which case porting can be adjusted from closed to full porting with only a 90º turn), or are you describing both?

Thanks again for the opinions bro - appreciate it.

[desA]

^ No problems.

I like the simplicity of the classic Imperial-style brass manifold. To support the gauges & hose-connectors, there doesn't need to be so much brass - it looks very bulky there. This bulkiness also applies to the central section around the push-buttons.

For the 90-degree ball-valve operators, I prefer to have gradual adjustment & this is where a rotating, slow action 'knob' is useful.

I'm pretty sure others will disagree, but, I'm never one for a 'pretty tool', but rather simple functionality at a fair price. I hope the comments are useful.

[HVACGod]

Nothing at all wrong with the classic Imperials - have several of them myself that I prefer over similar designs by other OEM's like Ritchie.


This bulkiness also applies to the central section around the push-buttons.

Ahhhhhh, got ya. That's the sight glass area you are referencing. Thanks for clarification on that.


For the 90-degree ball-valve operators, I prefer to have gradual adjustment & this is where a rotating, slow action 'knob' is useful.

I agree with you, at least in part on this - I also prefer to have the ability to finely manipulate the feed rate through the manifold - failure of the Yellow Jacket Titan valve's to manually modulate flow without 'freezing' or 'swelling' the valve assembly is, initially what prompted my search for a superior manifold design. I may not have been clear in my previous response - the ball valve and their operator's are not 'go/no go' like the push button valves - they are in fact gradient and offer very smooth - fine and precise manipulation of feed rate. The ball valves are not standard ball valves they were specifically designed for this application in this manifold - a quote from Zeus, that better describes the design:


The ball valves are a ‘characterized’ proportional opening ball valve with a ‘V’ notch slit that enables very, very fine manipulation and control of the liquid refrigerant – that today’s blends, dual and ternary require. This ‘V’ slot is only seen at the beginning at the opening, whereas full opening – only a 90º turn – there is very nearly a full 3/8″ port. Phenomenal design. These are incredible for both super precise control and quick slamming open or closed. And they provide easy visual verification of where you’re at.


I'm pretty sure others will disagree, but, I'm never one for a 'pretty tool', but rather simple functionality at a fair price. I hope the comments are useful.

No arguments there to be sure - and yea I appreciate the comments - if there's one thing I've learned in this trade after almost 30 years - it's that we definitely will disagree with each other - pretty opinionated group of guy's in this business and I like that. It's part of what keeps the professionals in the industry on their proverbial toes - thanks again brother.;)

[NoNickName]

I like it, but I would prefer a safety spring clip testo-style, than the usual question mark hook.
I don't like the membrane buttons. In the long run, they are prone to fracturing the membrane. I would prefer silicon push buttons, tv-remote style.
The brass block is a nice piece of machining.

[HVACGod]

Thanks No Nick - I like the carbineer style hook like that found on the Testo® 500 RSA Series as well - I don't have any information on the hook style being incorporated with the Paradigm™ but assume it is likely a conventional hook.

I am also not altogether certain that the push buttons work in conjunction with a membrane as one would expect either - I'll see if I can get more information in that regard - thanks for the reply.

[jpsmith1cm]

The ball valves are supposed to be a proportional style valve rather than the standard type of valve.

[HVACGod]

Yep - you're right JP, they are specially designed - are patent pending and are proportional.

[desA]

Is this an advert?

[HVACGod]

Is this an advert?

:D Absolutely not. Just answering the responses as I am notified of them since I authored the thread. Genuinely interested in diverse perspectives on the design since it is such a drastic departure from what any of us - here, there or wherever have ever seen or used.

I know there are a lot of American members here, but this Board probably has the most diverse cross section of members - demographically speaking - of any other trade specific network or forum in the world and even though we are all brothers in a common trade, there are so many differences between countries and nations when it comes to applications, processes, materials, tools, instruments - the way we think about them, use them and something as simple as the way we store them vary greatly from one technician/engineer/mechanic to the next, I am interested in the varying opinions. As I said earlier upstream - I personally have absolutely no financial interest in this manifold, the OEM or it's success or failure.

[oldesky]

I think it could lose the sight glass which would de-bulk it a little. I've never seen much use in a sight glass in manifolds although I'm sure some may like them. The side adjusters look more prone to breakage if the manifold fell on its side. Round metal handles would be better. What is the middle female port for? The gauge hose fittings in the bottom look pretty agricultural. In saying that the basic concept is good and just needs a little streamlining.

[multisync]

Seems typical American design philosophy

"If you can't make it big: make it bigger"

[HVACGod]

I think it could lose the sight glass which would de-bulk it a little. I've never seen much use in a sight glass in manifolds although I'm sure some may like them. The side adjusters look more prone to breakage if the manifold fell on its side. Round metal handles would be better. What is the middle female port for? The gauge hose fittings in the bottom look pretty agricultural. In saying that the basic concept is good and just needs a little streamlining.

Yes I agree elimination of the sight glass would streamline the bar - an integrated manifold sight glass serves in multiple functions actually - the most obvious of which is serving as an observation port to observe the refrigerant stream as it passes through the gauge set. Bubbles can be observed in the liquid stream and the condition (color) of refrigerant and oil which can indicate impurities in the stream. In my opinion those capabilities alone merit integration of the sight glass into this or any other manifold. Round handles would contradict the design intent of feed rate manipulation of the ball valves - also I am thinking I like the ability to control feed with a single finger as opposed to spinning a conventional wheel design.


What is the middle female port for?

Do you mean this:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/hvacgod/2-9-1.jpg

Forgive my ignorance but I'm not familiar with the term, "looks pretty agricultural", would you care to elaborate? Thanks!

[HVACGod]

Seems typical American design philosophy

"If you can't make it big: make it bigger"

I hate to be the one to dampen your apparent racism, but I'm afraid it is not an American design. And since your response is derogatory from a personal perspective I will also not dignify anything else you may have to add to this thread with a reply.

They can do wonders with therapy these days - perhaps you should consider seeking some.;)

[multisync]

I hate to be the one to dampen your apparent racism, but I'm afraid it is not an American design. And since your response is derogatory from a personal perspective I will also not dignify anything else you may have to add to this thread with a reply.

They can do wonders with therapy these days - perhaps you should consider seeking some.;)


You really are a silly old septic. I said 'American design philosophy' which doesn't mean it's American designed. It means that it's old fashioned, overweight and with little or no flair.

Oh and you can tell Papa Zeus I really really don't want one...

[monkey spanners]

I think i would prefer round taps rather than levers, less likely to move if the manifold is led on the floor.

But i've had the same Refco manifold for 18 years so round taps is what i'm used to :D

[jpsmith1cm]

You really are a silly old septic. I said 'American design philosophy' which doesn't mean it's American designed. It means that it's old fashioned, overweight and with little or no flair.

Oh and you can tell Papa Zeus I really really don't want one...


Have you looked at a Brute or Titan manifold?

This thing looks positively anemic next to them.

[HVACGod]

I think i would prefer round taps rather than levers, less likely to move if the manifold is led on the floor.

But i've had the same Refco manifold for 18 years so round taps is what i'm used to :D

Yea I think you just hit the proverbial nail on the head Spanners in the latter section of your reply we're probably all guilty of becoming too comfortable and acclimated to what the industry OEM's, like Refco, Yellow Jacket and Imperial - among others have been shoving down our throat as 'conventional' for close to a century.

Any departure from those conventions makes us uncomfortable nervous - look at the digital manifold gauge - a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[HVACGod]

Have you looked at a Brute or Titan manifold?

This thing looks positively anemic next to them.

Precisely - and although I refuse to respond to anything the quoted author you cited has to say - I am somewhat mystified that he is able to determine manifold weight based on design renderings. Or for that matter arrive at the conclusion that the design is 'old fashioned' I would love to see supporting documentation - patent application(s) or otherwise that even remotely approaches the design concept of this manifold.

Additionally I think a critical design feature of these new manifolds - not just the Paradigm™ that are being overlooked relevant to concerns and comments about "bulk" is the fact the the new generation manifolds are being bored to accomodate full and very near full 3/8" bore paths, obviously the manifold "bar" is going to have to be larger to facilitate a bore of this diameter.

Let's look at Refco for a moment - and I love the Refco analog manifols sets - probably among the top three highest quality analogs OEM's any where in the world - but look at the structural size and weight of two of their best selling manifolds:


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/hvacgod/refco-octagon.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/hvacgod/refco-drsa.jpg

This things are heavy and large - but maybe he has an issue with Swiss design conceptual philosophies as well.

[nike123]

I don't care at look of tool, my only concern is function.

First thing what bothers me here is (if I understood that correctly) that push button design for vacuum and charging ports.
If that mean that I could only select one or another, and not both port fully open or fully closed simultaneously, I am against that design.
Second, I am pretty concerned about easy possibility to accidentally open ball valve with this lever-instead-of-wheel design of high and low side valves handles or push buttons design of vacuum and charge valves.
Third concern is ability to hold vacuum at 20microns with ball valve design as oppose to Apion Megaflow (http://www.appioninc.com/downloads/files/MegaFlow_SpeedKit_Brochure.pdf) design.
I think these points are not been well taught when this design is been considered.

But, I could, sometimes, be very wrong. ;)

[HVACGod]

Thanks for the observations Nike, but they are a little misguided - a better description of the design and function of the characterized proportional ball valve and the depression valves can be found here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/digi-cool%C2%AE-paradigm%E2%84%A2-explained/



Re: New Digi-Cool® Paradigm™ Manifold
I don't care at look of tool, my only concern is function.

From a purely technical perspective I agree with you and this again may be one of the contrasts of the trade from here to there.....but, tool and instrument appearance, the fashion in which they are organized are all contributing components to the overall perception the client and probably more importantly ourselves have of our professionalism.

[multisync]

Have you looked at a Brute or Titan manifold?

This thing looks positively anemic next to them.


Can't say I have.Can't say I will either...

I use the CPS standard set and it's more than adequate..US made I believe ? :D They live in their own little box tucked up and safe as houses.

I have no need for anything else. The rest is supply house counter BS to me.

I have noticed on HVAC-Talk there is a certain amount of 'manifold gauge' envy. You occasionally see the odd "I carry six sets of gauges, anyone who doesn't is a pussy" thead there etc

I have never seen it in the UK..but who knows as I lead a very sheltered life...;)