Super and Hypermarket Retrofit

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi there,

I would like to ask you what will you do with R-22 super & hypermarkets.
In some countries like Italy, Portugal or Mexico are considering to clean the circuits and extract all mineral oil, in order to convert the installation to R404A and POE.
The operation can be done in less than 20 hours and there is an interesting increase of COP and CAP, between 10-20%.

Regards,
Nando.

[NoNickName]

Do you know what to do with R22? Leave it alone.
No need to remove it from existing installations. Just fix the f.cking leak!

[750 Valve]

Over here most of the supermarkets were changed over years ago, there are a few still kicking around that usually get changed over each refurbishment, its not a big job really.

[Silhouette]

Most of the UK supermarkets are looking at CO2!

[jpsmith1cm]

Most 22 markets here are switching to R422d.

Either that or doing a remodel and going all 404a.

CO2 is on the horizon, we just got a market in the area, but I haven't gotten my paws on the racks, yet.

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi there,

I can inform you that in Italy a company has made a retrofit using cleaning technology. They eliminated 100% of MO and switched to 404A. The cleaning of the circuits, specially the heat exchangers recovers partially the original COP of the installation, around 8-12%.
I don't think R-422d would ensure the oil return. I am sure there must be someone who has had already problems and compressors breakdowns.
Besides, this cleaning system allows to recover and recycle on site R-22. Regarding E.R. 1005/2009, you can take it from an install, and replace leaks in other sites until 2014, with this recycled refrigerant... isn't it great?

[chillled]

done about 8 large systems now (100hp+) no real problems just exposes problems that were already there, eg leaks, weak compressors. Plus its cheaper and easier than a refit

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi Chilled,

what did you exactly do on that site?

[Fri3Oil System]

Well, we have done several tests and comparatives, specially one on a chiller with 2 circuits, 4 compressors 8 cylinders each, working 2 on tandem. We replaced R-422d on one circuit, and R-407C, with our cleaning retrofit procedure on the other one, and results were quite graphic.
Circuit A (R-422d):
cooling CAP regarding R-22: 20% loss
COP: 13% loss
Circuit B: (R-407C and cleaning retrofit)
Cooling CAP: 4% increase.
COP: 3% increase
All measurements were taken before and after the retrofit with Climacheck, great tool.
Besides, these new "drop in" products do not ensure the oil return to compressors, and you will experience compressors breaks due to lack of lubricity, since they are a blend of HFC(97%), which is NOT miscible with the MO in the plant, and 3% of HC with which they pretend to bring back the oil. it is just not enough.

[coolaircyprus]

:o408a and 409a a zeotropic ***** has the first igredient the hcfc ***** 22 as one of the three ingedients.ho ho ho
Do you know what to do with R22? Leave it alone.
No need to remove it from existing installations. Just fix the f.cking leak!

[coolaircyprus]

so the best ***** ever ***** 22 is banned and reused again lol the fking *******s make fun of us