Space buys Project 1st

[esulx]

Anyone else heard this rumour yet?

[NIKK38]

News to me. I was talking to some of their guys in the week, no one mentioned anything.

[coolhibby1875]

its not gona happen

[Chunk]

There are rumours about every fridge company at the moment but i dont see this one as being true.

Space are in difficulty as well as Project 1st so what is the point of merging the two of them.

Very shortly Sainsburys are going to be in schtuck due to the amount of engineers they have to look after their stores and they only have themselves to blame!! Tesco`s did it a few years back and look at their problems now,but at least they are trying to get it sorted.

My prediction is:

If people dont look to the future then there wont be anyone wanting to come into this industry and its because of the same names that keep popping up and trying to **** up what used to be a good trade.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::)

[coolhibby1875]

hi chunk you say in your post about tescos problems now, Can you eloborate as i work this contract and have done so for years and i can tell you thier estate has never been in a better condition, as for Sainsburys well they make thier own problems by never investing on thier estate, They still have 48% on r22 and as soon as you mention parasense engineers run for cover i know that all the engineers i know would rather work on tesco compared to sainsburys.

[Chunk]

I`m leaving and jumping across to the Tesco contract next week.

Tesco`s dictated to contractors years ago how much their contract was worth and many couldnt cope and lost a lot of money and now have disappeared.Sainsburys seem to be going this way now and its going to hurt them.

It has taken Tesco a little while to realise that they need to spend money on their kit but at least they are doing it now.Whereas Sainsbury seem to throw money at stores that dont need it and the stores that do,get a lick of paint.

I`ve been doing Sainsburys for 11 years but i have got to look forward to the future,and i just hope there is one.:(

[coolhibby1875]

its the same here in Scotland engineers just dont want to work on the sainsburys contract

[Keef_Controls]

hi chunk you say in your post about tescos problems now, Can you eloborate as i work this contract and have done so for years and i can tell you thier estate has never been in a better condition, as for Sainsburys well they make thier own problems by never investing on thier estate, They still have 48% on r22 and as soon as you mention parasense engineers run for cover i know that all the engineers i know would rather work on tesco compared to sainsburys.

Its quite amazing how many stores still have R22 & R408A. There seems to problems getting hold of R408A now, whats it going to be like in a year...

[Silhouette]

I don't think that Space will buy P1st, they are making cut backs to their current workforce!
Rumour has it that P1st will be out of business at the end of the month!
Again the supermarkets drive another fridge company out of business, when will the heirarcy learn?

[coolhibby1875]

hi silhouette i wouldnt now about p1st going down soon and i hope not as they have a few good guys up here in scotland, However if they do they have only themselfs to blame as they agree to take on installs left right and centre without the labour to back them up, which means they are using every subbie under the sun at costs which are through the roof, The problem the subbies they are using are pure ****e so they cant be making any money on these installs, And as long as they are in the market cutting thier own throats as well as everyone elses the likes of Sainsburys and Tesco will use them.
I am sure i have said it in previous posts the like of Space, Project first and WR should get together round the table and come up with something that suits everyone so the big players have to go cap in hand to them, As i am sure there is enough work out there for everyone.

[Grizzly]

hi silhouette i wouldn't now about p1st going down soon and i hope not as they have a few good guys up here in scotland, However if they do they have only themselfs to blame as they agree to take on installs left right and centre without the labour to back them up, which means they are using every subbie under the sun at costs which are through the roof, The problem the subbies they are using are pure ****e so they cant be making any money on these installs, And as long as they are in the market cutting thier own throats as well as everyone elses the likes of Sainsburys and Tesco will use them.
I am sure i have said it in previous posts the like of Space, Project first and WR should get together round the table and come up with something that suits everyone so the big players have to go cap in hand to them, As i am sure there is enough work out there for everyone.


Sorry to disillusion Coolhibby.
But it has all been done before if my facts are correct.
Historically all the big guys agreed a set rate to charge.
It worked for a while until 1 of the group reneged and struck a deal direct... I think they were called O'Gormans..
Guess what happened to them?
Grizzly

[coolhibby1875]

hi grizzly

not disillusioned at all my point is as long as all these companies keep cutting throats good people with bills to pay ect, ect will lose there jobs and i dont mean engineers cause as long as there are fridges to fix the like of you and me will be employed, The people that get screwed are the good guys the girls maning the phones doing the stuff that goes un noticed they are the ones that pay by losing there jobs the ones that just cant pick up the phone and get a new job at the drop of a hat.
How many times on this forum do you here this company or that company going under or being bought over at the expense of good peoples jobs, The time must come soon when the supermarkerts will be forced into paying at least, the very least yours and i employers what they deserve to be payed for the service that they receive.

regards

[Grizzly]

hi grizzly

not disillusioned at all my point is as long as all these companies keep cutting throats good people with bills to pay ect, ect will lose there jobs and i dont mean engineers cause as long as there are fridges to fix the like of you and me will be employed, The people that get screwed are the good guys the girls maning the phones doing the stuff that goes un noticed they are the ones that pay by losing there jobs the ones that just cant pick up the phone and get a new job at the drop of a hat.
How many times on this forum do you here this company or that company going under or being bought over at the expense of good peoples jobs, The time must come soon when the supermarkerts will be forced into paying at least, the very least yours and i employers what they deserve to be payed for the service that they receive.

regards


I totally Agree.
How it is achieved thats another question?

Grizzly

[multisync]

Sorry to disillusion Coolhibby.
But it has all been done before if my facts are correct.
Historically all the big guys agreed a set rate to charge.
It worked for a while until 1 of the group reneged and struck a deal direct... I think they were called O'Gormans..
Guess what happened to them?
Grizzly

They have been busting fridge companies since before the early eighties so again it's nothing new. DES in SE London were the first of my memory but not necessarily the actual first

However those remaining now should be careful as setting a rate is called a cartel and illegal by law. See the huge fines recently metered out to building companies who were too busy already so simply priced themselves out of work: and ended up getting fined for it!

Dangerous stuff.

[multisync]

I totally Agree.
How it is achieved thats another question?

Grizzly


Market forces supply and demand the market finds it's own level.

Part of this is increased legislation which will force them to only employ suitably qualified engineers. That could/should create a demand and hence increase rates..but it probably won't as there are too many fly by night training companies passing 2079 for the lure of the Yen.

[oldtimer]

its a fact most of the lads that have done sainsburys for years are leaving . the problem is not everyone want shifts/ and have only seen changes for the worst. come april there will be shed loads pulling out

[esulx]

It would appear that Arcus FM have bought the FM department of Project 1st.

[NIKK38]

I was told that by one of the Arcus boys today as well....

[Chunk]

January is when things are happening,but whoever takes over will have left it too late.There are too few staff left at the moment and more are leaving weekly,it will be a company of subbies before anything of consequence happens.

It amazes me that a company that is desperately trying to keep a contract will sit back and watch all their employees leave and not even try and talk them out of it.

I will gladly go back if whoever takes over knows what they are doing and how to treat people properly!!!

In the meantime i will be dressing up as Santa in a shopping centre.;)

[coolhibby1875]

the real problems are stated above as in arcus fm buys project first fm.
FM being the problem firms like tesco,sainsburys and the likes are paying good money to these companies only for them not to spend it with fridge companies which results in the stores going down the pan and engineers getting pi@@ed off.
the sooner the fm companies disappear the better because untill then they just keep bleeding our trade to death!

[Rowan]

It would appear that Arcus FM have bought the FM department of Project 1st.
Christ there cant be much left to buy!
just a small admin dept, a couple of engineers, loads of sub contract debt and a very expensive lease on a nice office!!
perhaps the top brass at P1ST could write a paper on 'How To Ruin A Excellent Team'
still just bitter and twisted, good luck to all thats left there:)

[esulx]

I used to be part of that "excellent team" and I'll be seeing some old pals soon so I may just fish for some info.

[oldtimer]

personally i think the companies have got to the point that sainsburys contract is no longer cost efficient .

[coolhibby1875]

i have said it time and time again on here as long as parasense logs a call every time a fridge/freezer farts there will be no money in it!

[chillled]

Parasense is an excellent system, ie being able to check stores remotely, it just has to be understood! keep the line in the yellow box! I loved both service and installation for Sainsburys but could not go on the shift system at the likes of space because it just runs the good guys ragged for no more money, while the p*ss takers carry on taking the p*ss and get more money for it!!!

[oldtimer]

the shift system offeres aa better quality of life you do your 48 hours and you go home see you family and you are safe to turn your mobile off . no hassle to next shift simples

[milo]

The shift system does not mean a 48 hour week .When on lates you are rostered to work for up to 120 hours in 6 days.What happened to health and safety ?

[albionharley]

Can anyone explain how the shift system works ?
Thanks !

[oldtimer]

the shift is 48 hours no company will run the risk of 120 hrs as health and safety is the whole reason in came in . you do your shift and go home simples

[milo]

The shift is not a straight 48 hours per week.When working lates start time is between 12 midday and 3pm.You are expected to cover all priority calls until 8am.Engineers have been threatened with disciplinary action if they do attend calls.
We all agree that working these hours are not safe,but some people only pay lip service to health and safety.

[coolhibby1875]

hi chilled

i have to disagree parasense is a lot of rubbish and as for being able to dial in, To do what look at blue line go though a yellow box. all you can do is look at probe temps and look at a graph. WHAT IS THERE TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT. at least with the old TMS you could dial in look at probes take graphs adjust temps put things on case cleans the list goes on and on, I am like you i once loved Sainsurys service but when Parasense went in it went tits up because you were getting called out at all hours of the night because the computer was logging calls not a human being who could check the thing before placing a call at 3 a,m.

[oldtimer]

i can not beleive you its the law and no company can break it . if you fall to sleep at the wheel you and the company are liable . no manager can discilpline you not breaking the law . it wont stand up in a court

[NIKK38]

i can not beleive you its the law and no company can break it . if you fall to sleep at the wheel you and the company are liable . no manager can discilpline you for breaking the law . it wont stand up in a court

This thread seems to have gone off topic a little, but in answer to the above.

As long as you don't work more than an average of 48hrs a week over the year the company is within rules. You can work more some weeks and less others.
Most company hand books say "If you are tired, you must rest", this is their way of getting out of trouble if you have an accident because you are tired. The responsibility is shifted back to the engineer.
In reality we all know it's impossible to find time to rest when you're busy, we all just work through. It's the nature of the beast, we as engineers have allowed it to happen. It's too late to push the blame else where.

[chillled]

Perhaps we had it better with parasense because we didn't get single cases after 10 pm, but when it was understood how it worked it was easy enough to adjust the store to run in a parasense friendly manner.

[jjthefridge]

Parasense is an excellent system, ie being able to check stores remotely, it just has to be understood! keep the line in the yellow box! I loved both service and installation for Sainsburys but could not go on the shift system at the likes of space because it just runs the good guys ragged for no more money, while the p*ss takers carry on taking the p*ss and get more money for it!!!

Hi.

thankfully i got out before the shifts started, but from experience as all the arse lickers( and i found there were lots) who did lots of jobs each day, and plenty of recalls, would get offered better salaries, but then the likes of the rest who make things work keep them selves to them selves get offered crap salaries, but hey ho i'm out of it so it don't affect me know more,

[headgasket]

https://www.unitetheunion.com/default.aspx?page=2112&code=
we have only ourselves to blame, 40,000 individuals, but if it was 40,000 together, it might make a difference.
in the last 25 years i have never worked in a firm were any engineer, would stand up together, as we are all on different rates even in the same company, divide and conquer, classic capitalist tool. we are to blame if we demand more, it would feed upwards, the likes of space and wr would have to ask for more cash from the big boys, we are very under rated as a trade

[multisync]

https://www.unitetheunion.com/default.aspx?page=2112&code=
we have only ourselves to blame, 40,000 individuals, but if it was 40,000 together, it might make a difference.
in the last 25 years i have never worked in a firm were any engineer, would stand up together, as we are all on different rates even in the same company, divide and conquer, classic capitalist tool. we are to blame if we demand more, it would feed upwards, the likes of space and wr would have to ask for more cash from the big boys, we are very under rated as a trade


That is the key comment.

City traders don't have a union either but they seem to negotiate a decent wage. we need to upspec the quality. Then the bosses can demand more money.. THEN we can demand more money.

[Spencer.Guy]

Then the bosses can demand more money.. THEN we can demand more money.

Doesn't work like that.

Nobody demands anything.

The Companies bid against each other to do the work for the lowest price, then have to match the number of engineers and what they pay them, to the income they get regardless, of whether that number of men can fulfil the contract spec.

Long gone are the days of, If you want X amount of service it will cost XX pounds take it or leave it.

City traders get paid for the amount of business they do, more trades = more money.

.

[Plum65]

It would appear that Arcus FM have bought the FM department of Project 1st.
I have tried to find out about Arcus taking over Project First FM but their comm's department refused to comment.

[multisync]

Doesn't work like that.

Nobody demands anything.

The Companies bid against each other to do the work for the lowest price, then have to match the number of engineers and what they pay them, to the income they get regardless, of whether that number of men can fulfil the contract spec.

Long gone are the days of, If you want X amount of service it will cost XX pounds take it or leave it.



.

Why are you mis quoting me ?

[ice_p]

Is Project First worse than Denmans then?

Sainsbury's used to be a great
job sounds a right load of s*** now.

It's a really sad state of affairs with supermarket contracts at the minute. How on earth are companies supposed to invest in apprentices when the contracts are so unstable. Whats gonna happen in the future? Who the hell is gonna fix all the gear? Iv'e seen one or two apprentices about but none who have had there full time with the same company within the supermarket side. It's crackers!

[Spencer.Guy]

Why are you mis quoting me ?

Explain what I'm miss quoting.

.

[kr1664uk]

i was just thinking the same...



Is Project First worse than Denmans then?

Sainsbury's used to be a great
job sounds a right load of s*** now.

It's a really sad state of affairs with supermarket contracts at the minute. How on earth are companies supposed to invest in apprentices when the contracts are so unstable. Whats gonna happen in the future? Who the hell is gonna fix all the gear? Iv'e seen one or two apprentices about but none who have had there full time with the same company within the supermarket side. It's crackers!