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Robert may
02-11-2009, 06:26 PM
Hy guys, im not in the business (so i appologise in advance for my lack of technical terms!) and i want to install an ASHP system for my bungalow (new build, 80m2 and highly insulated) for hot water bath/shower/underfloor heating....

I have sourced (boxes with fan that sit outside the building) from ebay a

Samsung AQ18UGAX 5.8kw and a
Toshiba RAS-18GAH-ES2 5.45kw

now i think both of these are for air conditioning systems but i was wondering whether i could use one as an ASHP to power a hot water system assuming i can buy all the other components individually and if its possible who could i talk to about it?

Im in London

Many, many thanks in advance for any help

RM

frank
02-11-2009, 08:04 PM
These links will allow you to contact trained installers for both the Daikin Altherma Air Source Heat Pump or the Mitsubishi Ecodan system

http://www.althermapostcodesearch.co.uk/

http://heating.mitsubishielectric.co.uk/AEIfind.asp

taz24
03-11-2009, 06:16 PM
I have sourced (boxes with fan that sit outside the building) from ebay a

Samsung AQ18UGAX 5.8kw and a
Toshiba RAS-18GAH-ES2 5.45kw

now i think both of these are for air conditioning systems but i was wondering whether i could use one as an ASHP to power a hot water system assuming i can buy all the other components individually and if its possible who could i talk to about it?

RM


Hello Robert, you have opened a real can of worms with that question.

You see, if a fridge (air con) engineer wanted to think of a way to wind a group of fridge (air con) engineers up he would have asked that question because it is everything that we hate and are fighting to stop.

You have bought from ebay some miss matched equipment and you want to change the purpose of that equipment to do somthing different and to top it all you do not know one end of a air conditioner from the other.

It is nearly bonfire night and I can only assume you have lit the blue touch paper and are now standing well back.

taz.

spimps
03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
Purpose built and decent quality.
http://www.ecoheatpumps.co.uk/heat_pumps.htm?gclid=CKSmwPyu750CFUtp4wodcmm3MA

Gary
03-11-2009, 07:04 PM
Hy guys, im not in the business (so i appologise in advance for my lack of technical terms!) and i want to install an ASHP system for my bungalow (new build, 80m2 and highly insulated) for hot water bath/shower/underfloor heating....

I have sourced (boxes with fan that sit outside the building) from ebay a

Samsung AQ18UGAX 5.8kw and a
Toshiba RAS-18GAH-ES2 5.45kw

now i think both of these are for air conditioning systems but i was wondering whether i could use one as an ASHP to power a hot water system assuming i can buy all the other components individually and if its possible who could i talk to about it?

Im in London

Many, many thanks in advance for any help

RM

This is a joke, right?

You have no idea how the machine works or even what to call it... yet you believe you can transform that machine into an entirely different machine.

I would challenge you to make that machine do what it is designed to do (air conditioning), much less make it do something that it is not designed to do (ASHP).

Gary
03-11-2009, 07:14 PM
It always amazes me that people who cannot change a tire on their car believe they can turn their car into an airplane.

cadillackid
06-11-2009, 03:20 PM
ahh but we all gotta learn somewhere... let the guy learn how to build up his system and then learn what he did wrong when the compressors blow up......

thats how you REALLY learn the trade - design / build something that fails and then figure out what ya did wrong...

after all at one time in our lives we had no idea what that box in the yard with a fan on top did or what it was for.....
-Christopher

Gary
06-11-2009, 04:04 PM
He has no desire to learn the trade.

There are DIYers and there are DIYers.

Some want to learn and some want us to do their thinking for them.

And then some think trained monkeys can do what we do. I'm not in the mood to train this particular monkey.

desA
06-11-2009, 05:08 PM
Why do folks think that an AWHP is an easy thing to design, build & tune?

The simple fact is that they are very complex beasts - sometimes worse than a female.

Every part has to be specifically designed to fit in with the other parts of the system. To buy a few 'outdoor boxes' from ebay is simply a waste of money.

A simple thing like incorrect charge can blow your compressor before you know it.

Even a well trained, seasoned veteran will have respect for these beasts. I class myself as being on a continual learning curve when it comes to development of AWHP's. A new challenge is presented each & every day. There are challenges even for seasoned veterans of the trade.

Mutter... ebay... mutter... :(

cadillackid
06-11-2009, 06:07 PM
right you guys are about some that want to learn and some that just want a nrand new cadillac for the price of a beat up ole chevy....

I do though truly admire those that go out and really truly try to design and build something outside of the "box"...

but t hen most of the stuff i see that people build that way that actually works took a lot of research and planning and some trial and failure before the success....

let my own residential system be example... lots of thought, effort, reading, questions, and prior experience went into what is now about a 99% working system... and yeah if you guys saw the threads on it.. its way outside the box....

ahhh but when I was just 21 years old the A/C quit in the place I was living and the landlord refused to fix it... so I thought I could build my own...
I took an old car compressor, a 3/4 horse motor, some rubber hose...clamps.. 2 car condensors and a couple of box fans.....

yeah it did get cold... but it leaked like crazy... water got all over the floor since the pan i made didnt work.. and first time it rained outside the box fan blew up,.. seized the compressor and burned up the 3/4 horse motor....

maybe i was the OP in a former life? but really i started to learn then....
-Christopher

taz24
06-11-2009, 06:08 PM
ahh but we all gotta learn somewhere... let the guy learn how to build up his system and then learn what he did wrong when the compressors blow up......

thats how you REALLY learn the trade - design / build something that fails and then figure out what ya did wrong...

after all at one time in our lives we had no idea what that box in the yard with a fan on top did or what it was for.....
-Christopher

If you believe that Chris you offer him the advise.
But don't moan if it all goes wrong.

taz.

.

Gary
06-11-2009, 06:38 PM
One need only peruse the CPU overclockers forum to see what truly dedicated DIYers look like. They do their homework... and they are definitely outside the box.

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=65

cadillackid
06-11-2009, 07:53 PM
im not gonna moan about anything... im only gonna say that likely 2 cool only outdoor units are probably not gonna do the job for the OP... besides im not qualified to offer any kind of advice on AWHP because ive done strictly Air - Air, living space climate control....

and then im more on the advanced control side of things... I only stated that anyone who is mor ethan a service tech.. anyone who has designed anything and built anything from the ground up has probably at some point had things go Ka-blooey at least once.. and then worked to learn why they went Ka-blooey and were better informed and learned from it...


if the OP just wants a system built for him and installed for free then he better go to the corner store and buy a mega-millions ticket cause he got a better chance of winning that than getting his system engineered for free..

I agree the OC forum rocks... to me the extreme OC and CPU cooling offers a great way to learn about all the parts of refrigeration... and often with old used parts that are inexpensive....
-Christopher

Robert may
09-11-2009, 10:46 AM
hi guys, thanks for the advice or rather abuse....

it was a simple question and a simple 'can - cant' would have sufficed. surely it quite obvious im not in the trade!!!!

just to clarify a few issues you boys seem to have:-

there is nothing wrong with doing things on the cheap (as 'you' call it! but i certainly wouldn’t call it that) ...

there is also nothing wrong with asking a simple question. its the 'internet' and this is a 'forum'. in future can i suggest a professional response a at minimum a modicum of decorum ie 'sorry cant help' instead of a personal attack. it doesn’t make your forum look very, errr well professional.

and finally, and some of you should really try and remember this one 'manners are free' ... im sure i can find someone in your trade that can engage in a polite and civilized conversation. heres hoping though!

i didn’t come here to start a war just seek advice. I have to admit though from the personal nature of the responses it’s probably possible which is what p1sses some of you off so much. Be that as it may its hardly my fault.

many thanks and well done

desA
09-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Robert... these are trying times we all find ourselves in.

When you have the first units up & running, with genuine data for the community to review, then I'm sure you'll get a totally different response.

Until then, you have an incredible amount of homework to do. Alternatively, pay a reputable RHVAC practitioner to build your systems for you - or, simply, buy some completed units.

All the very best.

frank
09-11-2009, 02:01 PM
I thought that my response was polite and would be quite helpful for you, but, it seems I was wrong :confused:

Gary
09-11-2009, 05:54 PM
hi guys, thanks for the advice or rather abuse....

it was a simple question and a simple 'can - cant' would have sufficed. surely it quite obvious im not in the trade!!!!


I don't much care if you are in the trade or not. My idea of helping people is, you pull the wagon and I will push. If you stop pulling, I stop pushing. You have made zero effort. You want something for nothing and believe you are somehow entitled to it.

Robert may
09-11-2009, 07:36 PM
hi desa, that’s precisely what im trying to achieve, I’m trying to find someone to pay and source the components required and build the system. its that simple. trying times would normally mean someone that understands this (as i clearly don’t) would say, here’s what you need and heres the price for it .... that’s how it works in my industry anyway.

frank, i apologize, i was simply generalizing which i shouldn’t as it did get a little overly negative at one point.

taz24
11-11-2009, 09:12 AM
hi guys, thanks for the advice or rather abuse....

it was a simple question and a simple 'can - cant' would have sufficed. surely it quite obvious im not in the trade!!!!

just to clarify a few issues you boys seem to have:-

there is nothing wrong with doing things on the cheap (as 'you' call it! but i certainly wouldn’t call it that) ...

there is also nothing wrong with asking a simple question. its the 'internet' and this is a 'forum'. in future can i suggest a professional response a at minimum a modicum of decorum ie 'sorry cant help' instead of a personal attack. it doesn’t make your forum look very, errr well professional.

and finally, and some of you should really try and remember this one 'manners are free' ... im sure i can find someone in your trade that can engage in a polite and civilized conversation. heres hoping though!

i didn’t come here to start a war just seek advice. I have to admit though from the personal nature of the responses it’s probably possible which is what p1sses some of you off so much. Be that as it may its hardly my fault.

many thanks and well done


Hi Rob.

I have read what you said and then I re read it again.
I also read my responce and if you thought I was rude, that was not my intension

but and there is always a BUT!!

You have bought, with no knowledge what so ever some air-conditioning equipment and then again with no knowledge at all you ask for advise on what to buy to make it work, somthing, that it was not designed for.

Can I ask you a question?

Would you buy parts of a gas boiler off ebay and then ask a plumbers forum for help on installing it?

I'm not sure if you know or not but in Europe it is illegal to work on refrigerants if you do not have the correct training and qualification.

The same as it is illegal to work on a gas boiler!!

So without wanting to be rude why don't you ask the person you bought the equipment off to help you?

Or you could pay £200 to £300 a day for a qualified engineer to sort it out for you.

I'm sorry if that is not want you want to hear but I have worked hard to get where I am and I have jumped through lots of hoops so I can do what I do.

All the best Rob, but don't take offence just because we are passionate about our trade and we are trying to maintain high standards.

taz.