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rick
19-11-2004, 10:12 AM
Greetings all.
I supply and install a lot of Daikin a/c units and find them a very good unit in many ways from operation to technical backup.Daikin have dealer network in Victoria(Aust) and dont sell through major department stores.Just interested in others comments on the units.

(Mainly install domestic and light commercial.)

eggs
19-11-2004, 11:06 AM
i'd sell them evertime if i could.
they are a joy to work on.
unfortunatly, most of my customers don't see past the bottom line and reject the price for this top quality kit.

cheers

eggs

rick
19-11-2004, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the comments.I definetely agree.Tell me do they have a dealer network over there or can you buy them anywhere.?
In response to your comments eggs same problem here now too.Cheap imports flooding the market.Backup support for this cheap trash almost non existant.

chemi-cool
19-11-2004, 01:41 PM
Eggs is right, ooops, so is Marc!

The world is flooded with cheap small AC splits and most people are only looking at the price.

But, as I look at all those cheap splits, I didnt see any problems with them in the past 3 years.

So maybe they are cheap if the will keep on working without problems in the next 3 years, then it was a good deal.

Over here you can buy a 2.5 KW mini split for US$ 285.

Chemi :)

eggs
19-11-2004, 02:06 PM
this post is going over into my other "cheap imports" post.
i am now of the opinion if you cant beat them join them.

chemi, i'm now looking @ $139.5 for a small split 2.3kw.

As far as the daikin thing goes.
they only sell their products direct (excep space air)to the qualified companies and they seem to be particular who installs their product.
their aftersales backup is first class, although i havn't needed to use it much.

cheers

eggs

chemi-cool
19-11-2004, 02:10 PM
They cost to manufacture in China, US$80, more or less.

Its not worth fixing if something goes wrong.

Chemi :)

frank
19-11-2004, 10:13 PM
As far as the daikin thing goes.
they only sell their products direct (excep space air)to the qualified companies and they seem to be particular who installs their product.

Don't you think this is the way all manufacturers should go? If they did and we could cut out all the inexperienced, untrained and incompetant "professionals" then the industry would be a better place.

The UK fridgies who have no more than NVQII and think they know it all are our worst nightmare !

By the way, we are authorised Daikin Dealers :D

rick
20-11-2004, 05:19 AM
Thanks for the comments all.
Sounds like we have similar opinions on the situation of cheap imports.
Everyone seems to agree Daikin is a top make.Thanks all.

Superheatman
25-11-2004, 07:34 PM
Hi..the company that I work for installs Daikin from splits to screws and usually recommend them for install to our clients where possible...however we also work on many other manufacturers equipment and they all have their niche..Airedale for instance make some really good reasonably priced water chillers for small applications. :)

Peter_1
25-11-2004, 08:19 PM
....they only sell their products direct (excep space air)to the qualified companies and they seem to be particular who installs their product.
their aftersales backup is first class, although i havn't needed to use it much...Cheers

In Belgium - were the European factory is located - they (DAIKIN!!) started last year with selling via supermarkets wall splits direct to the end user.
In the box is some sort of voucher whereby the client can contact some installers in his region. After installing, the client signs the voucher and the installer send the voucher back to Daikin.
He then receives +/- 400 . For this amount, he has to install the unit, deliver the copper lines (max 15 ft), electrical lines, power supply , brackets,.... labor and he has to give also 2 years warranty on his labor.
Is this a good practice? We stopped installing Daikin after they asked us if we wanna join this system.

The best units??? At a client in Ostend (+/- 1 mile from Daikin, for those who know the highway along Daikin, the KODAK factory, in the same street) - so nearby the sea - , we had client with a complete corroded condenser coil (the fins) on a +/- 4 year old unit. The argument of Daikin was "well, of course , that's due to the salty environment in Ostend"

But besides the DAIKIN's stood some Carriers - they were +/- 15 years old - and their condensers had no corrosion at all.
A second time, we had a broken compressor and it took +/- 3 days before they delivered the compressor. The compressor only had to travel 1 mile from the factory to our client.

We needed to install afterward new units for new production lines and client decided to install rooftop Carriers (you can see them along the highway on the roof Marc), never Daikin anymore.


peter

Superheatman
25-11-2004, 08:49 PM
Hi...I get the drift of your posting but were the coils treated or untreated coils in the original spec....also we have had bad experience of carrier coils on some sites...I think it depends on many variables...there is a site not far from our works that has 26 carrier heat pumps mounted on the roof...the coils are disintegrating but that dosnt mean that all sites have the same problem or that carrier has a continuing coil problem.. (we didnt install the above but have been called in to pick up the pieces).

chemi-cool
25-11-2004, 09:06 PM
I would expect from a manufacturer to ask you where are you going to install his products.
its his responsibility to advice you to use coated coils or copper fins.

Just last week, I have changed two Climaveneta condensers that was blocked with scale from over cooling with untreated water and so were the coils.

Chemi :)

Peter_1
25-11-2004, 09:15 PM
Hi...I get the drift of your posting but were the coils treated or untreated coils in the original spec....also we have had bad experience of Carrier coils on some sites...I think it depends on many variables...there is a site not far from our works that has 26 carrier heat pumps mounted on the roof...the coils are disintegrating but that dosnt mean that all sites have the same problem or that carrier has a continuing coil problem.. (we didnt install the above but have been called in to pick up the pieces).

Daikin pretends that all their coils are treated and no,... 15 years ago, they didn't spoke about treatening a coil.
What I noticed then was that the thickness of the fins was far larger then the Carrier coils.
Same problem we had with Friga-Bohn (Heatcraft) condensers: very thin fins.

Peter_1
25-11-2004, 09:27 PM
Another bad habit of them:
when you ask for a quote for a big job, some VRV units for example, never give any information about the site or your client. They always ask for it because they need it - they say - as an input for their system.
As soon they feel that you also make an offer with another brand than DAIKIN, they will contact your client and make them a direct quote.
They calculate the whole job, including the labor and they then search an installer who wants to install the units at the price they calculated for the client. Most of the time, there is nothing foreseen for the installer, they make net prices to the end-user.

Another story? They - the brain washed salesmen - frequently visits architects, and make sure that no other brand can be offered when making quotes. I as an installer wants to decide myself what kind of brand I want to install.

Another one? I saw a colleague of mine and we compared our net pricelists.. there was a difference of more than 20%. How on earth could my colleague ever make a competive offer?

Another one? Do you have also 'Daikin Superdealers' in your country. Daikin say what sort of advertisement you will make in the Yellow Pages and they forbid you to install any other product than Daikin. You're also not allowed to advertise other brands in the Yellow Pages. They give you of course then better prices if you agree with this.
So if someone has problems with a Panasonic or Mitsu, they look in the Yellow pages and they surely passes you because you only advertise with Daikin.

I don't say they have a bad product (I think they have the best product) but their way of doing business - at least here in Belgium - is in my opinion not the right way.
So we now install Mitsu's and the responsables for Mitsubishi Belgium are almost all 'old Daikin peoples' (the boss was head export Scandinavian countries, the other sold chillers in the Wallon part of Belgium and was sat in teh R&D of the chillers, another was a European tech for their chillers, one of the techs installed more than 15 years Daikin,...) So, they know their job.
If we have a problem with a Mitsu while under warranty , we give them ths adress and if possible, they go to the client the same day and we afterwards receive a service note what was wrong. For free if it was not our fault.
We once had a problem with a unit and the suspected faulty part could be a PCB. They sended me a whole new unit and we could change parts as we liked. This is what I call a good service.

Superheatman
25-11-2004, 09:44 PM
Hi..yes the manufacturer would advise you on the best install for application and locale but then it boils down to price and the extra cost of coated coils can swing the job.... a false economy we know but the world is run by accountants not engineers (unfortunately)....yes I have done a bit of bundle changing....retubing and plenty of rodding in my time due to poor water quality control..we tend to recommend eddy current testing if we are in the least suspicious or on a major refit.You lost me a bit(its not difficult :-) ) with your comment " and so where the coils)...best regards Superheatman.

Superheatman
25-11-2004, 09:51 PM
Hi Marc...just visited your site....nice stuff!

Daddy Cool
27-11-2004, 11:55 PM
As a new boy to this site, and having spoken to Marc (when i worked for a Daikin distributor) i feel i am sticking my neck out a bit here, but anyway here goes.

Daikin, yes they produce good units, but so do other people. Maybe someone will correct me, but i heard that Fujitsu took the lead in Australia being the most expensive brand, but used this as a tool along the lines of "you get what you pay for". Daikin decided to invade the Australian market and under-cut the Fujitsu price to compete. The effect was that they were seen as an average brand behind Fujitsu, yet in the UK the roles are reversed.

Is it not a case of what you are used to fitting is best (as you are used to it's layout; operation etc?)

Daikin in the UK are very good at marketing their products and leading people into thinking they are cutting edge, when other manufacturers have already done things that they later us and market for themselves?

eggs
28-11-2004, 01:11 AM
i'd sell them evertime if i could.
they are a joy to work on.
unfortunatly, most of my customers don't see past the bottom line and reject the price for this top quality kit.

cheers

eggs

so!!!! i mostly fit LG , and by god it's good! easy to work on, reliable and well priced. as you say "you become familiar with it" or words to that effect.
what does everybody else use most of ? and why?
the reason i chose LG was, when i was setting up business, ONLY Thermfrost helped and took me by the hand, give me unconditional support. it had nothing to do with the kit, it's just what thermo happened to sell.


cheers eggs

Abe
28-11-2004, 08:41 AM
I sell two brands...........

LG which is simple, clean , not tacky, smacks of a Japanese brand...........and once youre familiar with it, easy to install.

LG's fall down on technical manuals ( non existant) if you have a prob you need to call technical guys at cryo or hawco...........who WILL help you out ( Thanks Peter Canning at Cryo) he is good

LG constantly hark on about their state of the art training centre in Milan....exploit marketing PR on the subject, but never back it up with action. They cant even organise a coffee morning somewhere local where an LG technical bod can give a presentation on LG troubleshooting techniques.

Had some probs with their R407C stuff...........I would never install another of their R407C systems again............nor anyone elses for that matter

Mitshubishi

I like the Mitsu , prob because Mitsu...........( Bison in the old days) 3 D now take the trouble to market themselves and push the stuff

I have had little trouble with the Mitsu stuff, Some cassettes I installed 15 years ago are still working today.

Im hearing a lot of stuff about Daikin............Im intrigued.....maybe I ought to look and study prices etc.......

Who sells Daikin?????? :D

rick
28-11-2004, 12:32 PM
Daikin, yes they produce good units, but so do other people. Maybe someone will correct me, but i heard that Fujitsu took the lead in Australia being the most expensive brand, but used this as a tool along the lines of "you get what you pay for". Daikin decided to invade the Australian market and under-cut the Fujitsu price to compete. The effect was that they were seen as an average brand behind Fujitsu, yet in the UK the roles are reversed.

I have been involved with Daikin splits for the last 5 years.In that time they have always been the dearest units.The backup service and warranty and tech support is definetly the best.I would probably say that the general opinion over here is that Daikin are the best units.The only time I have seen Fujitsu and Daikin prices similar is with the release of the new Fujitsu inverters in the larger domestic size.(2.5h.p. 3h.p. 3.5 h.p).
Mitsubishi's tech support is quite good also.

Peter sounds as if you have a totally different situation over there.Have you tried to take up any of these complaints with Daikin?If so what was the response.?

Abe
28-11-2004, 05:34 PM
Strange Daikin " play up " In Belgium considering that is where they come from !!!

Daikins factory is in Belgium

Peter_1
02-12-2004, 07:23 PM
Sorry for the delay.
It's indeed strange Aiyub: reason why Mitusbishi is growing very fast here, why Daikin has to use this selling strategy, a lot of techs has switched to other brands due to this,...

A lot of my colleagues complained already to Daikin but the owner of the selling company in Belgium is Daikin itself. So...??
A lot of their salesmen seems brainwashed. They are sure that there is no other brand that is as good as Daikin. Mostly these salesmen came just from school, so this says a lot.
I don't say they have a bad product, it's probably one of the best. Technical support is OK for me but I don't like their marketing strategy.

We installed today 3 Shining airco's as a test. Client is a multinational and we installed thee already several units.
Well, we were very, very positive surprised. They are a copy of Daikin but with some little benefits:
between the screws and the casing pg the outdoor unit, they used nylon washers (something Daikin did in the past). If you tighten the screws, you don't scratch the casing. The first rust places are always the screws on Mitsu or Daikin because they damage always a little bit the paint when assembling the unit in the factory.
Very quit, indoor and outdoor.
Nice casing
Delivered with a simple wall bracket, and 12 ft copper lines.
Power cord already fitted.
Connection wires of 15 ft already attached in the indoor unit.
Nice display on the indoor unit.
R407c.

I will make some pictures of it and post it here.

Peter

coolkev
02-12-2004, 08:41 PM
:cool: :cool:
As a new boy to this site, and having spoken to Marc (when i worked for a Daikin distributor) i feel i am sticking my neck out a bit here, but anyway here goes.

Daikin, yes they produce good units, but so do other people. Maybe someone will correct me, but i heard that Fujitsu took the lead in Australia being the most expensive brand, but used this as a tool along the lines of "you get what you pay for". Daikin decided to invade the Australian market and under-cut the Fujitsu price to compete. The effect was that they were seen as an average brand behind Fujitsu, yet in the UK the roles are reversed.

Is it not a case of what you are used to fitting is best (as you are used to it's layout; operation etc?)

Daikin in the UK are very good at marketing their products and leading people into thinking they are cutting edge, when other manufacturers have already done things that they later us and market for themselves? sorry to disappiont you but daiken are the most espensive split here in aus Fujuitsu fall in the mid range with panasonic , mitsubishi ect. In my opinion fuji is the most value for money as a think diaken are beeter there to expensive. I think this is because of all the goodies they give to there dealers.

Abe
02-12-2004, 10:35 PM
We installed today 3 Shining airco's as a test. Very quit, indoor and outdoor.
Nice casing
Delivered with a simple wall bracket, and 12 ft copper lines.
Power cord already fitted.
Connection wires of 15 ft already attached in the indoor unit.
Nice display on the indoor unit.
R407c.

I will make some pictures of it and post it here.

Peter


Peter...............Thanks for the info...........am I ( you ) correct...... Shining ??

Ive never heard of them............please tell me more about this brand............

:confused:

Peter_1
02-12-2004, 11:17 PM
Have a look at www.klimaconnect.com Aiyub
Price for 3.4 kW heatpump was 370 Euro.

Brian_UK
02-12-2004, 11:50 PM
Well Peter, a quick look at that site shows some promise, I will disgest more when the hour is not so late.

Abe
03-12-2004, 12:37 AM
Ok, I had a look at the web site..........( unlike Brian who hit the sack early ) I stayed up.............the night owl catches the moles..............

The Shining...........( at first Peter, I thought you were taking the mickey..........you know, The movie , The Shining...........Jack Nicholson.

Anyway, not to digress...........I bought an air con similar to that one last year from Climate Equipment in Solihull............it was ok.........though it did have a luck lustre remote controller which didnt work............Climate promptly sent me another

but did you say 300 Euros...........thats around 200 Quid........

Being in the EC we dont pay duties or vat cross country.
thats assuming we pick up a shed load from Belgium

...........maybe worth ( this so called phantom buying group) buying an assortment and stocking up in our garages.........ready for next summer

Thats after Peter has completed all his tests.........and given us his thumbs up.


:cool:

chemi-cool
03-12-2004, 05:16 AM
Have a look here Abe.
http://www.shining.com.cn/en/index.asp

Chemi :)

eggs
03-12-2004, 08:51 AM
these shining people i already have the info.
i can mail the price list if anyone wants it.

cheers

eggs

Peter_1
03-12-2004, 06:32 PM
Aiyub, Chemi,

The Shinings we installed yesterday.
The compressor is Toshiba, removed the sound cover to find it out.
Just unpacked indoor unit. Forgot a picture of the remote control.
There should be an ionisator in the unit (we didn't opened the frond covers at all, everything was prewired)
Casing similar to Daikin or Mitsu, also the attachment of the fan bracket.

Peter

Peter_1
03-12-2004, 06:35 PM
Some more pictures
Nice side entry cover
My foot, 3 way valve and on the ground the nylon washers

Peter_1
03-12-2004, 06:36 PM
Final one of Shining

chemi-cool
03-12-2004, 07:59 PM
Hi Peter,


What a small world, here we call them Tadiran.
You even have this Italian gas bottle like mine. :)

By the way, its a 4 way valve, but who's counting :D


The y sell them to anyone and you can get them in different name brands.


Chemi :)

frank
03-12-2004, 09:55 PM
I notice from the web site that they use some Daikin kit during the manufacturing process.

Can't be all bad then eh? :D

eggs
04-12-2004, 01:25 AM
peter. do you not insulate the last 150mm of liquid(expansion) line on the continent ?

cheers

eggs

Peter_1
04-12-2004, 08:43 PM
[QUOTE=The Shining...........( at first Peter, I thought you were taking the mickey..........you know, The movie , The Shining...........Jack Nicholson.

but did you say 300 Euros...........thats around 200 Quid........

Being in the EC we dont pay duties or vat cross country.
thats assuming we pick up a shed load from Belgium

...........maybe worth ( this so called phantom buying group) buying an assortment and stocking up in our garages.........ready for next summer

Thats after Peter has completed all his tests.........and given us his thumbs up.

:cool:[/QUOTE]
Indeed Aiyub, Shining the movie.
Indeed 200 quid. Cheap, isn't it?

And you know how I calulated the job: with Mitsu machines and looked to the profit I should have with these Mitus units. Then inserted the net price of Shining and the same profit as with the Mitsu machines and added and additional 250 for some seach I expected I should have to do cause these were new units to us.
I didn't needed that exta 250 and client een called me after sending my quote if I was giving price for 3 unitsand if there was no fault in my calculation.

I don't know the VAT regulations but if we buy something in the UK, we don't pay VAT neither but we have to fill in papers afterwards and pay afterwards some kind of VAT.

Buying a stock is perhaps not such a bad idea.
Did you hade some time to look at the pictures?

Chemi said they looked like Tadiran and as far as I remember - he once made an add concerning Tadiran - he hadn't specific problems with it and I think that Chemi lives in a country with the worst conditions a AC unit can run.

Peter_1
04-12-2004, 08:43 PM
I notice from the web site that they use some Daikin kit during the manufacturing process.

Can't be all bad then eh? :D

Where have your read this Frank?
Frank, in your new avatar, you looks like a famous Belgium singer/composer: Jean Blaute

Peter_1
04-12-2004, 08:49 PM
peter. do you not insulate the last 150mm of liquid(expansion) line on the continent ?

cheers

eggs
Savings eggs, savings :D :p
I don't have that lot of money like you (as seen in your avatar)

Peter_1
04-12-2004, 08:58 PM
What we often do is installing an AC outdoor unit for a cooling room, even a few times for a freezer room.
Who said in another post that this wasn't possible?
We did it at least 30 times.

New - well,..new since 1999 - environment regulations states that an outdoor unit may produce not more than 35 dB(A) measured on 10 meters if the units are installed in residential areas. Very difficult with standard condensing units.
And we all know the problems with undersized condensers on standard condensing units on hot summer days.
And try once to find a good outdoor casing for a small hermetic unit.
Well, install and AC unit and troubles with noise or high discharge pressures are gone.

The capacity given by the AC manufacturers is given at an evaporating temperature of 7C. Well,... if you divide this capacity with 2, then you become +/- the capacity for an evaporating temperature at -7C / -10C (what you need for a cold room) And the unit is much cheaper (even with Mitsu) and especially with Shining now. We will try it the first time when this is possible.

Abe
04-12-2004, 10:58 PM
these shining people i already have the info.
i can mail the price list if anyone wants it.
eggs

Eggs..............Cant help my pedigreee, e mail me the price list...............pleeease

Well, "we" are famous for asking...............How much ??? and " Can I have a discount???
:D

Abe
04-12-2004, 11:03 PM
What we often do is installing an AC outdoor unit for a cooling room, even a few times for a freezer room.

The capacity given by the AC manufacturers is given at an evaporating temperature of 7C. Well,... if you divide this capacity with 2, then you become +/- the capacity for an evaporating temperature at -7C / -10C (what you need for a cold room) And the unit is much cheaper (even with Mitsu) and especially with Shining now. We will try it the first time when this is possible.


Peter, You got me all thinking now...............and I want to try it out on a cold room.

Do you use a standard evaporator coil and mate it with a air conditioning condensing unit??

Can I use the air conditioning indoor unit in the cold room ??

Peter_1
05-12-2004, 10:10 AM
Peter, ...Do you use a standard evaporator coil and mate it with a air conditioning condensing unit??
Can I use the air conditioning indoor unit in the cold room ??

Aiyub,

First compare the price: I will not mention the prices here but let's take a 2,4 kW Shining unit. This capacity is given at +7C.
Now let's take another compressor, for example a scroll or a hermetic one - I have here the specs in front of me of L' unith Hermtique - you will see that a compressor gives +/- half (somewhat less) the cooling capacity at -10C it gives at the rated +7C for an AC application.
ZB15K*E gives 6,78 kW at +7C and 3.69 kW at -10C

Let's face it, in real life, we're also not sure about some parameters we will have in a situation we have calculated: HP is never that pressure given in the compressor tables, outside temperatures varies, subcooling varies, humidity in the cold room varies so the given capacities derived from laboratory conditions isn't 100% correct, we regulate for another superheat then stated in the evaporator specs and so on...

So a 2,4 kW AC unit can be used for a cooling application where you need 1,2 kW at -10C.
(Sorry, Im used to work with SI units)
If you take the price for a hermetic condensing unit and compare it with the price for a complete AC unit, the price is +/- equal. But.... you now already have your weather casing, you have a large condenser, a very quit outdoor unit, a pre-wired unit, a pre-filled unit, a better looking unit, and.... you have a indoor unit for free.
I's a pitty they only can supply heat pumps and no colling only models.
Perhaps we must come together and buy a container only outdoor units.

This is also possible because they don't use digital communication between in- and outdoor unit but simple 220 V like in the old days.
But even with Mitsu it's possible: you only have to insert a very small 12 VDC auxillary relay, a type wich consumes very little current for the coil. We buy it a "Farnell in One" in the UK (transport is free AND...next day delivery)

The comparison is the same if you do it with Mitsu's and buy only the outdoor unit (this is possible in Belgium)

I use a standard evaporator coil like Searle, Heatcraft or Kuba, whatever.
On smaller units, we even don't fit an expansion valve. We use the capillary tube that's in the unit itself.
We sometimes removed the capillary tube and mounted an expansion valve.
I know what some will say... you don't have a receiver and it isnt possible. Wwzell, we proved that it is possible. But you don't need a receiver.

Same 'trick' as they use in the big Carrier chillers. We have a Carrier chiller of 750 kW at a client (the same where we installed the Shinings, Balta a carpet manufacturer) without a liquid receiver.
You can back-up the liquid in the condenser at those moments the expansion valve closes a little bit. It closes because the load on the evaporator decreases. If the load decreases on the evaporator, the heat to be removed on the condenser side decreases also, so you need less condenser surface or less condenser tubes and you have space or tubes available in the condenser to store the excess liquid. The only thing you must take care of is that you don't overfill the system. When we charge in the winter we cover the condenser half with cardboard

You can't use the indoor unit: it was designed for a DT of +/- 20 K (indoor 20C and evaporating at 0C) So its surface will be too small and it will freeze up.
Again, it is possible, we did it already in the past with Mitsus we will do it again next month in a market truck wit h a 5HP Mitsu - but here we have the possibility to install a 5 HP outdoor unit connected to a bigger 6 HP indoor unit. We also deactivate with the DIP-switches the freeze up protection which will sense a too low coil temperature and start a defrost cycle.

Abe
05-12-2004, 12:33 PM
Peter

Thx for the info. very intresting indeed. Ive printed it out and now going to try and digest it...........

But it looks a good option to me, One the noise will be acceptable , looks good and no need for weatherproof housing.........

I have to cut short, I hear a car pull up...........its some visitors from Canada.....

Catch you later

coolkev
05-12-2004, 01:07 PM
:cool: Peter i agree with theory. I have done simalar myself. One thing confuses me a little is when you say to do away with capp. tube and use TX valve. How does it go for starting torque, generally PSC motors as found in AC units wont start with large press diff. assosiated with TX system. You generally would need CSR or CSIR i would have thought?

Peter_1
05-12-2004, 01:14 PM
Perhaps we were lucky but we never had problems with it.
BTW, Sporlan - hey Professor, long time not seen - has pressure equalizing TEv's.

chemi-cool
05-12-2004, 04:10 PM
Very good peter!!!!

Some 10 years ago I needed urgent a condensing unit for a winery and I used one of a 14KW air conditioner with two speed fan, as you said, capilary tube away and a TEV was installed, a small reciever was added, a SV for pumpdown and its just fine all those years.

It will always will be cheaper but, keep in mind that AC compressors can not go under -10C suction temp or they start to get too hot. Maybe in Europe they can go lower.

One thing you can add is a fan speed controller from Dixell, cheap and good.

Chemi :)

frank
05-12-2004, 07:48 PM
Where have your read this Frank?
Frank, in your new avatar, you looks like a famous Belgium singer/composer: Jean Blaute


Hi Peter

I read it here on there website http://www.shining.com.cn/en/company/company.htm

Looks like my secrets out then :D

Abe
05-12-2004, 08:03 PM
Hi Marc

Gold Star is LG
Well, as you can figure the intuitive , creative , inventive Suid Afrikaners are there on the solutions front..........

It all sounds too good to be true, but I know it is true

Now simple ole me always puts on my enquiring face and pose the question..........

Outdoor units have intervonnecting wires and remote controllers!! How on earth does one rewire these units so they work with cold store controllers, ect.

Peter, in the UK we can and do get cooling only outdoor units...........but it makes sense to use the reverse valve for hot gas defrost..........the difference in price between a cooling only and heat pump is negligible

chemi-cool
05-12-2004, 08:13 PM
Hi Abe.

It is very simple, most of the wires are already there, just add pressure controls, SV And the missing wires to a temp controller.

Chemi :)

Peter_1
05-12-2004, 11:32 PM
It all sounds too good to be true, but I know it is true
Outdoor units have intervonnecting wires and remote controllers!! How on earth does one rewire these units so they work with cold store controllers, ect.
Peter, in the UK we can and do get cooling only outdoor units...........but it makes sense to use the reverse valve for hot gas defrost..........the difference in price between a cooling only and heat pump is negligible

You're right Aiyub, why buy a only cool unit.

I will make one of these days, when I have some spare time a schematic how we do it with the PEAD-P units from Mitsubishi. We disconnect the existing digital thermostat and use a simple Eliwell.
The indoor unit gives a 12 VDC to start the compressor relay and a second 12VDC energizes the 4-way valve for the heating cycle (or the defrost cycle like you wish)
So you only need two 12VDC relays (you need types with a very small coil) and the contacts of these relays controls the 220 VAC relays or 4 way valve.

But it's also possible with other brands, some have even 220 VAC controls, so this is even much easier, you don't need then the 12 VDC relays.

We even don't fit additional pressure controls nor a SV Chemi.

Attached some pictures of Daikin units on small trailers (or how do you call this things?) See it's possible.

Should a freezer application not be possible if you should take care of a low superheat of +/- 10 to 15K so that the motor is well cooled? Just a question, never tried it.

PS: Chemi, got your message but I had to select this evening (it's already midnight now) who I should answer first. Will do it tomorrow.
We had yesterday some sort of Saint in the tea-room - we call it Santa Claus but it's not the same as the bearded man from Christmas with the reindeer's - who comes with toys for the children's. It was very busy. See 4th picture.

Temprite
07-12-2004, 10:18 AM
Peter.
I had the Daikin sales rep come today so I showed him a picture of the trailers.He was quite impressed but said you may face a few warranty issues.
Have any of these units failed under warranty if so what did you do?

Peter_1
07-12-2004, 11:01 AM
Peter.
I had the Daikin sales rep come today so I showed him a picture of the trailers.He was quite impressed but said you may face a few warranty issues.
Have any of these units failed under warranty if so what did you do?

Daikin is aware of this - we explained them the application - but we also never had any troubles with it.
We did it also several times with Mitsubishi machines. We once had a compressor problem with Mitsubishi and they sended immediate a complete new unit.
Some said also that we should encouter problems because they're mounted on a rolling application like a trailer. So, also this gives no problems.
We installed hermetic machines in I think more than 50 rolling applications and never had serious troubles with it.

And if we had troubles, then it was mostly our fault or in an application where we expected troubles.

eggs
10-12-2004, 06:23 PM
Does anybody know what the Daikin D1 Team is?
for the last 2 weeks they have been in the H&V News inviting people to register your interest.

Is it the beginings of the reason peter1 stopped using them?

cheers

eggs

rbartlett
10-12-2004, 06:36 PM
Daikin has contactedx us with the intentions of us going 'dealer 1'
my gut feeling is that this is the begining of 'daikin direct'


cheers

richard

Peter_1
10-12-2004, 10:02 PM
Eggs, where have you found that avatar?
It's a nice one.

Peter

eggs
11-12-2004, 12:14 AM
it's an avi of me,sat in my office reading my H&V News, with the graphic resolution turned down.

cheers

eggs

Peter_1
24-12-2004, 12:02 AM
Next year, SHining will have the new VRV II from Daikin and they will show it at the IKK in Germany.

phil
29-09-2005, 07:14 PM
hi there all

had a bit of fun with a daiken inverter pack at a store in cambridge had to change the compressor that went ok bur on r22 tried regas in vapour as the tech help line suggested i might as well as !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pulled out all the gas threww it in as liquid and bobs your uncle it works a treat anyone come across this before ??????????

alyanna17
18-02-2008, 05:48 AM
Greetings all.
I supply and install a lot of Daikin a/c units and find them a very good unit in many ways from operation to technical backup.Daikin have dealer network in Victoria(Aust) and dont sell through major department stores.Just interested in others comments on the units.

(Mainly install domestic and light commercial.)


Hello Rick,

My name is Alyanna. I am new here. I am very much interested on this forum. I am into air conditioning industry. And I noticed that you are correct that based on my findings, Daikin is one of the top manufacturers for Air conditioning.

Could you guys give your ideas on how Daikin is going in the industry? In which regions are they most located? What functions are placed outside of their headquarters?

Many thanks guys!!!

Brian_UK
18-02-2008, 10:22 PM
Could you guys give your ideas on how Daikin is going in the industry? In which regions are they most located? What functions are placed outside of their headquarters?

Many thanks guys!!!Hi and welcome to the forum.

If you go to any of the Daikin websites you will be able to find the answers to your questions.