R600 comp replace with 134?

[fridgability]

Hi Folks
The compressor in my domestic freezer has just packed up, its only about 4 years old and runs (or did run) on R600. I have never worked with this gas and do not have any, so my question is can I replace it with a 134a compressor and charge it (after vac and drier change) with 134a. Also what oil is used with R600, I can flush the system if necessary. Any help would be most gratefully received.

[multisync]

Hi Folks
The compressor in my domestic freezer has just packed up, its only about 4 years old and runs (or did run) on R600. I have never worked with this gas and do not have any, so my question is can I replace it with a 134a compressor and charge it (after vac and drier change) with 134a. Also what oil is used with R600, I can flush the system if necessary. Any help would be most gratefully received.


Have you had the training to remove this refrigerant in the first place?

[fridgability]

Hi Multisync.

I can recover CFC's and HCFC's but have no training for hydoocarbons. However I think that there is little or no gas left in the system.

[nike123]

Hi Multisync.

I can recover CFC's and HCFC's but have no training for hydoocarbons. However I think that there is little or no gas left in the system.

You should vent R600 until there is little above 0 Bar gauge pressure and then purge rest of refrigerant with nitrogen.
That way you are avoiding possibility of dangerous mixture of air and isobutane for explosion.

My experience tells me to buy new refrigerator when compressor goes on old one.

[philfridge]

Compressor selection
Select a replacement compressor - either
an Rl2 compressor charged with alkyl benzene
oil or an R134a compressor charged
with polyolester oil. The refrigeration capacity
of the new compressor must correspond
to that of the orginal compressor.


In general: No open fire when troubleshooting and repairing.
The refrigeration circuit must be opened with a tube cutter or a special tool.
For tube connections, traction-stable compression fittings (e.g. socalled lockrings) must be used.
Vacuum pumps must be explosion-safe. It must be possible to lead the discharge air from the
vacuum pump into open air.
Leak detection cannot take place with normal halogen leak detectors, as they do not react on
hydrocarbons. A special detector reacting on hydrocarbon must be used instead. Another possibility
is to use a leak spray.

[philfridge]

You should vent R600 until there is little above 0 Bar gauge pressure and then purge rest of refrigerant with nitrogen.

This should not be done, do you not know this is an explosive gas and should not be vented in kitchens where there may be naked flame !

In order to carry out service and repair on R600a systems the service personnel must be properly
trained to be able to handle a flammable refrigerant. This includes knowledge on tools, transportation
of compressors and refrigerant, and the relevant regulations and safety precautions when
carrying out service and repair.

Warning: Do not use open fire.

[nike123]

.....................................

[nike123]

This should not be done, the refrigerant should be reclaimed .Shame on you, do you not know this is an explosive gas and should not be vented in kitchens where there may be naked flame !


Oh yes, lets presume that we are all morons!

If maximum charge in domestic appliance is 150g of isobutane, how that amount could make explosive concentration in kitchen or anywhere else where that freezer could be placed?
38g/m^3 is lower explosion concentration. That means that for explosion mixture to occur, volume of air in room should be less than 4m^3. And that is the case when in appliance is 150g of refrigerant which is hardly a case here.
Also, do you think that someone who knows that it is going to vent flammable gas is going to do that with windows and doors closed and with lighter to see if gas is actually going out.
Or you are just scared to work with that gas?

http://www.ra.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/Literature/Manuals/06/service_household_04-1996_cn73c302.pdf

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2467/3802547658_2b2a265fe9_o_d.png

[philfridge]

Oh yes, lets presume that we are all morons!


You are not an explosive specialist are you ? so do not try to justify your venting of r600 as safe practise to me or others here. If you have specialist gas training you may know better in future.

[nike123]

You are not an explosive specialist are you ? so do not try to justify your venting of r600 as safe practise to me or others here. If you have specialist gas training you may know better in future.

...........................

Don't believe everything you think.

[philfridge]

Oh yes, lets presume that we are all morons!


Ok I will asume you are a moron then


Yes




My opinion is,
Only one reason is enough:




In order to carry out service and repair on R600a systems the service personnel must be properly
trained to be able to handle a flammable refrigerant. This includes knowledge on tools, transportation
of compressors and refrigerant, and the relevant regulations and safety precautions when
carrying out service and repair.



Well then thats the reason !


I don't understand why is so many peoples who takes things for granted without questioning them.

Check my signature.

[nike123]

Ok I will asume you are a moron then



Phil, I don't want to be personal with you, so please, don't push me in that direction.
I have my beliefs and you have yours.
Please, if you could hold your self, I will hold myself of further discussion with you.

[philfridge]

Of all the statagens, to know when to quit is the best.

[Gary]

Got a propane torch? Easy enough to get it to light, but not so easy to get it to explode. We are not talking about dynamite here. Take reasonable precautions, just like you would with that propane torch.

[1mikeefc1]

take the system outside and vent it out replace drier comp and evacuate system then charge with r134a done it lots of times with no problem.

[fridgability]

Thanks folks.
Well that put the cat among the pidigons didd'nt it.

I aint daft, I'd take the freezer outside before venting any residule butaine.

Anyway it seems that the compressor is OK, it runs and pulls a vacuume so I think that I'll just purge and vac and as it appears that the oil is mineral I'll try an R12 drop in such as 409c or 413a.
I'll let you all know how I get on, That's if I dont blow us all off the face of the earth in the process.

[fowlie]

done the same thing plenty of times as these hfc seem to either block the driers or leak,just vent to outside purge a few times with ofn and due a triple evac r134a works very well as does r404a

[ice_cold]

Thanks folks.
Well that put the cat among the pidigons didd'nt it.

I aint daft, I'd take the freezer outside before venting any residule butaine.

Anyway it seems that the compressor is OK, it runs and pulls a vacuume so I think that I'll just purge and vac and as it appears that the oil is mineral I'll try an R12 drop in such as 409c or 413a.
I'll let you all know how I get on, That's if I dont blow us all off the face of the earth in the process.

Hi fridgability.
How did you get along with the case?
Does the fridge work well? Did you also replace the expansion valve?
And this question comes for everyone :) Is it chemically possible to use the expansion valve of a R600 running system on a R134 one, supposing our running conditions are identical?