Rack systems Please help!!

[ktmtragic]

I am an electrical contractor and am involved in an installation where the fridge co wanted the whole job but I got the electrical as I have a good relationship with the customer. To say the fridge co is not co-operating is an understatement! Please help!! Does anyone have a generic drawing of the mechanical and electrical layout (Like at Tech) or links to them it would be greatly appreciated
Regards
ktmtragic

[ktmtragic]

Seems it is easier to become a free mason than get information out of fridgies it is all an over priced rort from what I can see will have to go and get the gas ticket next week. The sooner the world wakes up to this the happier I will be

[D.D.KORANNE]

I CAN WORK OUT HIGH REFRIGERATION RACK DESIGN ; FOLLOWING INFO REQD :

EVAP TEMP
CONDENSING TEMP
REFRIGERANT
COOLING LOAD

COMPRESSOR COMBINATION CAN BE WORKED OUT BASIS THE LOAD PATTERN . ELECTRICAL SCHEME YOU CAN DESIGN THROUGH A CONROLLER WHICH ENABLES COMPRESSORS TO SWITCH ON & OFF DEPENDING UPON LOAD / USAGE .

OIL MANAGEMENT COMPONENTS CAN BE SELECTED ONCE LOAD IS ESTABLISHED

IN CASE OF PM : ddk0123@gmail.com

[lowcool]

sorry ktm
an electrician is a fridgie with half a brain.
have you consulted any refrigeration wholesalers who have this info at their fingertips,no i would say.

stick to lights and power points or you might increase my bank balance,on that score go for it!

havent got anything against freemasons either,some of our countries best explorers are freemasons so place that up your bottom also.

a rort ha ha ha 28 bucks award on wages to pull wires amongst other things.

dont electricians have a forum for this kind of thing or cant they read drawings too.

i feel better now cheers ktm

ps i would move onto locksmithing at least you can keep the world out with a turn of a key

[Andy]

I am an electrical contractor and am involved in an installation where the fridge co wanted the whole job but I got the electrical as I have a good relationship with the customer. To say the fridge co is not co-operating is an understatement! Please help!! Does anyone have a generic drawing of the mechanical and electrical layout (Like at Tech) or links to them it would be greatly appreciated
Regards
ktmtragic

Hi ktm:)

the controllers will have wiring diagrams with them, or should have , the rest is just mains wiring from dist boards to cabinets and packs.

Kind Regards Andy:)

[ktmtragic]

Sure went straight to the equipment supplier and was on good terms until the fridgie got wind of it and it died right there. My question is who is feeling threatend here? My only motivation is to do the right thing by the customer and do a good job! This is not the sort of work I normally do so I am not interested in going into competition with them. I would like to provide the customer with DRAWINGS, INDICATION of faults and a cable schedule. From what I can see the norm is keep it a BIG secret and give the customer nothing so they have no option but to call me back and I can just keep charging! I am going to do the 3 day course and get my gas ticket. Probably would not even have even entered my mind had this lot been such a bunch of !@#$%^&
AS an asside anyone willing to put up what they pay for gas and what they charge for it ?
My rant
Cheers ktmtragic

[ktmtragic]

Thanks Andy

All I am asking is how a compressor or evaporator would be wired. I do understand there are many variations. I am sure you guys carry a drawing in your head of how they are normally laid out. A simple line drawing is all I am after. I have no idea if or when I will be gettting any information from the fridge co
Thanks ktmtragic

[Tesla]

That's Tragic KTM
For a start you catch more flies with honey than s%#t. If you want our help you should keep it professional. You are a contractor you say, then you should be well aware of contract law and contracts. If you are dealing with a rack thats no small job and there is a lot of expensive equipment attached to those wires. Lastly a little knowledge is worse than none at all.

[ktmtragic]

Ok Tesla this is the date of the original post 06-08-2009, 09:32 PM How many responses? I get cranky and post 12-08-2009, 09:11 PM and wow! Yes there is a contract the Fridgie agrees I do all electrical. Just waiting for drawings!!!!! Was hoping to get a heads up before then. I am not that stupid to go it alone I was just hoping to do a bit of preplanning to get an idea of where to position boards and how to run cables from a basic control diagram. Sorry if I came accross as a smart A*** I was fustrated with the lack of cooperation
Thanks
ktmtragic

[Peter_1]

S... I am going to do the 3 day course and get my gas ticket. .
...
And in these 3 days, they will train you to a refrigeration mechanic? Wow, I have to come to Australia if it can be done that fast in your country.
If they can do it in 3 days, then I doubt the quality level of it. Following a 3 day course will not learn you a lot about wiring a pack.
Is it a VFD controlled pack? Does it have unloaders? Are you have oil pressure controls? Liquid levels on the vessel?
How will you manage sequence controls so that the one with the least hours will start first?
Are compressors star/Delta or part winding?
How will you handle the LP control?
How will you manage a stable LP when load decreases on the pack?
How will you then maintain a stable HP when compressors shut off?
Do you need anyhow a stable HP when outside temperature or load drops?
Does customer wants to use the advantages of dropping HP?
Are EEV's installed on the evaporators?
Does client wants remote control of his system.
How will you manage oil return if packs runs days on lw load?
This is something the electrical guy must take care of.

So many questions I have you probably can't answer because they're in a certain way related to the concept of the whole refrigeration system.

If it was me, then I shouldn't allow that another contractor wires a pack I installed. The only reason: liability and separation of legal responsibility.
If a compressor runs without oil and the contractor miswired the oil pressure switch, who is then responsible if a compressor brakes? The refrigeration tech because the oil doesn't return for whatever reason or you, who wired the OPS the wrong way?
Or the current on a current safety switch not set right. Or running to long on a low load and oil stays in the systems.
Or at a sudden, all the oil comes back and you have oil hammer.
This is something you have to prevent.

It's not a good idea to split such a job and spread liability to two different contractors and the first one has to give all the information to the second one.

I have no objection that someone helps in bigger installs but this isn't 'just helping' anymore. It's also very shortsighted from both end-user and you working this way.

I will give you a drawing, Andy will give you another one, Marc will give you his idea and we will all be right.
There's not one way doing this job right, there are many right methods of wiring this.

Sorry, but that's my idea bout it.

[Gary]

I am an electrical contractor and am involved in an installation where the fridge co wanted the whole job but I got the electrical as I have a good relationship with the customer.

Would you hire a buddy to wire your house without first being absolutely sure he is qualified to do the job?... simply because you have a good relationship with him? Wiring a rack system is far more complex than wiring a house. This customer is a fool.

It's not a matter of knowing the secret handshake, it's about knowing what you are doing... and you obviously do not... nobody in their right mind is going to turn you loose on a rack system.

[Eeram]

Like Peter_1 said, we can give you all the drawings you would ever need, electrical or mechanical.

You need the experience to work next to a "fridgie" to understand the electrical circuitry involved.

Not even a 3 Month course would help. We as Refrigeration Mechanics/Technicians/Consultants never work with gas, it is dangerous. We work with a substance called refrigerant.

We do not try to discourage you, but you must remember that refrigeration does not run on good relationships, but on years of experience and mutual trust.

[Peter_1]

Eeram, mutual trust like you said, that's exactly what I meant.

[ktmtragic]

Thanks guys