R134a phasing out for automotive use

[Voyager]

This quote comes from a member of the 'SAE Interior Climate Control Committee'

"one of the Major OEMS (Ford, GM, Toyota etc.) is expected to sign their supply agreement for HFO-1234yf no later than the end of this week. They will roll the first car off the line with the new refrigerant in less than 18 months."

That will cause a lot of problems/expense for the automotive A/C aftermarket industry.

Some of the main points are :
1. Retrofitting from R134a to HFO-1234yf will not be allowed. (see point 4.)
2. Sale of the new refrigerant is expected to be restricted to certified shops. (so they will charge whatever they like)
3. The refrigerant is slightly.....yes I said SLIGHTLY flammable but please do not panic. (insurers will love that!)
4. New vehicles with this refrigerant will have stronger evaporators and leak sensors. (more complexity - £500 training course?)

[Frikkie]

Thank you for the information Voyager. I don't understand why it should be a worry for flammable refridgerant when passengers ore sitting on 60 liters of petrol at 100 kmh.

[Clk320_Greg]

roll off in 18 months, then 36 months of warentee...


so its a good 54 months before anyon in the automotive industry will feal a change!

[desA]

Does anyone have links to HFO-1234yf property data?

The German auto manufacturers are having a tough time getting HFO-1234yf accepted, it seems. They tried to stay with R-134a until the CO2/HFO-1234yf debate had cleared. The European Union over-ruled them & seems to be forcing them towards CO2 - kicking & screaming.

[lowcool]

gday des
i did a bit of a read up on the 1234 stuff on the bitzer web site,there maybe properties listed there.

i am probably missing something regarding CO2 use as to how they can retain the charge in the system on mobile applications?

[desA]

@ lowcool

Thanks for the links to the Bitzer site - I'll head over there to follow up.


i am probably missing something regarding CO2 use as to how they can retain the charge in the system on mobile applications?

I have to agree with you, here. The pressures are a real issue, as I understand things, at present. The added cost for material thickness should be onerous.

Developed automotive condensers in my earlier years - these were a real problem in aluminium for CO2 a few years back. The multiport tube wall thickness left little internal space for the refrigerant to flow. Somewhat of a dilemma.

[Voyager]

One other thing which I left out of the original post - COST.

The price of HFO1234yf is expcted to be "$20 to $40 per pound."

Even at the lower end of the price scale, the cost of a 30 pounder will be horrendous.