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djbe
26-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Hi all,

We registered with refcom last week with no problems.

My question is the refcom registration only seems to relate to stationary refrigeration equipment?

So where does transport refrigeration fit in? We work on both static and transport so need to be registered but do people or companies that work on transport only need to register with anyone?

regards,
djbe.

Voyager
26-06-2009, 02:51 PM
Yeah, that's bugging me too.

I only do car A/C, but might find it difficult to obtain R134a without getting registered. That means getting 2079, most of which is totally un-neccessary for car A/C systems. for example, there is not a car on the road which requires brazing to it's pipework - they either bolt in or for rubber hoses, crimp on.

Argus
26-06-2009, 04:04 PM
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It's an interesting question and a possible grey area.

Registration of both companies and individuals working with refrigerants is mandatory now under the well-known F Gas regulations.

However, the F Gas Regs only apply to fixed equipment, as you said. This exclusion (or derogation) applies to any transport equipment that is not a car.

Cars are covered by the MACs Directive which was introduced as a parallel piece of legislation at the same time and covers all the issues of F Gases when related to car AC.

But, personally and from what the European commission has hinted, it is likely that transport will be included at the next revision.

So where does that leave you?

In theory you or your company will need to involve yourselves in the registration process, unless you can demonstrate on each occasion that you buy refrigerant that you never, ever work on fixed kit. Frankly it sound more trouble than it's worth to do that.




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frank
26-06-2009, 08:41 PM
All this scaremongering is costing us all thousands () in compliance.

It's been illegal for many moons to vent refrigerant to atmosphere - but - how many instances do you know of where persons have been successfully prosecuted? - personally, none.

Restrictions on handling refrigerants are causing us all to be 're-educated' in 'recent' theory regarding ozone depletion.
Some say Global Warming is happening, some say they need more evidence before they believe it and some say it's been going on for centuries.... I go with the latter. Remember the 'ICE AGE' ?

From my perspective, there is always someone, somewhere, paid to think up new ways of generating income. Global Warming presently seems to fit the bill. It won't be long before something new comes along, possibly affecting some other trade, because we will have been squeezed for all our worth by then, and the gravy train may seem like it's coming to an end.

There are so many opponents to air conditioning - 'it dries my eyes, you can get Legionella, etc' but as soon as it breaks down, they are on the phone wanting you to fix it within the next 10 minutes. How many of these do-gooders would drive a car now without AC?

Life without refrigeration is unthinkable now, as would life be without the wheel, but somehow, after all it has provided for so many since it was invented by John Gorrie in 1844, some think it will now lead to the end of the world.

A money making racket or scientific reality? - you decide

djbe
26-06-2009, 10:47 PM
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So where does that leave you?

In theory you or your company will need to involve yourselves in the registration process, unless you can demonstrate on each occasion that you buy refrigerant that you never, ever work on fixed kit. Frankly it sound more trouble than it's worth to do that.



.

Thanks Argus, like I said we have registered anyway and I guess it is good to be ahead of the game.

Does what you have said above mean that anyone not registered by the 4th july will not be able to buy refrigerant unless they can prove they are registered or working on transport only?

I ask this because my local wholesaler looks at me with a puzzled expression when I ask them what proof of competence they are going to need before supplying refrigerant.

regards,
djbe.

Voyager
27-06-2009, 01:33 AM
Did somebody move the goalposts ?

I've been looking at the MACs directive, and it refers to gases with a maximum GWP of 150.

Do What ?????

That leaves a choice of R152a (pentaflouroethane), R717 (ammonia), R718 (water), R729 (air) and R744 (Co2). There is R245a as well, but that contains propane.

I wonder how much Co2 will be produced scrapping all the current car A/C tools and manufacturing new ones?
All my equipment will certianly be obsolete.