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fisher112
18-06-2009, 04:26 PM
I need some advice on my residential A/C system. I've been adjusting the R22 charge and I'm not getting the results I hoped for...I know you guys/gals get tons of these posts with inadequate data, so I've tried to cover most of those bases. Here's my system setup:

-New 13 SEER 2.0 TON R22 split system w/ fixed .67 orifice

My evap delta T is around 14F after the system runs for 30 min at the temps shown below, and I feel this is too low. Airflow through the coil is about 1000 CFM. All evap temp. measurements are taken within 5 feet of the evap. coil.

Outside Dry Bulb: 88F
Outside suction temp at condenser unit: 53
Suction Pressure: 82 PSI (49F Sat. Temp)
Liquid Pressure: 175 PSI (temp not recorded)
Inside Dry Bulb @ intake of evap: 70F
Inside Wet Bulb @ intake of evap: 67F
Inside Dry Bulb @ outlet of evap: 56F
Combined condenser fan & compresor amps: 6.5

From my unit's mfg chart, required superheat at these temps is 6 @ 90F outside temp and 10 @ 85F outside temp. This would indicate an overcharge condition (superheat too low). The problem is, I have recovered quite a bit of refrigerant with little to no change in system temps/pressures. When I initially draw down the charge, my suction temp rises to 60-62, but after the system settles down after 20-30 min, the temp goes back down to approx. 53 again. My compressor amps don't change more than a few tenths EVER, regardless of temp load. I think my orifice size is slightly large (should be closer to .61 instead of .67), but I'm thinking I should be able to get at least an 18 deg. delta across the evap in my case detailed above. Any suggestions? If I pull out slightly too much refrigerant, will I see evap temps drop to the point where freeze-up is a concern, or will my evap outlet temps rise (even less delta across coil)? I appreciate any insight.

Thanks,
Scott

Yuri B.
18-06-2009, 06:56 PM
Hello. With high suction low condensing Ps seems compressor is small.

Gary
18-06-2009, 07:30 PM
Too much airflow. Switch to a lower fan speed and take all new measurements.

Also include the temp at the thermostat.

Gary
18-06-2009, 07:40 PM
Hello. With high suction low condensing Ps seems compressor is small.

It is tempting to suspect inefficient compressor, but given low charge, 500 CFM/ton (should be no more than 400 CFM/ton) airflow and low return air temp, I think blaming the compressor may be premature... but you may in fact be right.

fisher112
18-06-2009, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the input. I'll switch to the lowest fan speed setting and remeasure. Temps at thermostat have been running approx. 5 degF higher than at evap. intake. Quick question...when saying inefficient compressor, do you mean low SEER or mechanical malfunction? Thanks again.

fisher112
18-06-2009, 08:57 PM
Another quick piece on info that might help...my compressor amps are only reading 5.4 (after subtracting fan amps), and the mfg. rating is 8.4 amps rated load. Again this is 5.4 at the temps/pressurs listed above. Thanks.

Gary
18-06-2009, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the input. I'll switch to the lowest fan speed setting and remeasure. Temps at thermostat have been running approx. 5 degF higher than at evap. intake. Quick question...when saying inefficient compressor, do you mean low SEER or mechanical malfunction? Thanks again.

I mean mechanical malfunction... specifically broken valves.

Gary
18-06-2009, 09:20 PM
Another quick piece on info that might help...my compressor amps are only reading 5.4 (after subtracting fan amps), and the mfg. rating is 8.4 amps rated load. Again this is 5.4 at the temps/pressurs listed above. Thanks.

This is another indication of inefficient compressor.

fisher112
18-06-2009, 09:36 PM
That's not what I wanted to hear :-) Is there anyway to confirm such damage?

Again, your help is much appreciated.

Gary
18-06-2009, 10:53 PM
Close the liquid line valve. The suction should pull down into a vacuum.

icecube51
21-06-2009, 09:24 AM
hey Gary, is it not always so,that when you close the HP line the comp go's in vacuum ?? did you not mean "it will not go in to vacuum " ??

Ice

Abby Normal
22-06-2009, 12:43 PM
Too much air flow is not a big problem.

It could be grossly overcharged.

70 DB/67 WB is suspicious unless of course there is lots of outside air or return duct leaks.

Disable evap fan momentarily and watch head pressure climb. If it shoots right up past 300 the valves are fine, if it cannot push it to 300 the valves are shot.

Determine subcooling by measuring liquid line temperature, if it is in excess of 20 you are most likely grossly over charged

Abby Normal
22-06-2009, 12:46 PM
hey Gary, is it not always so,that when you close the HP line the comp go's in vacuum ?? did you not mean "it will not go in to vacuum " ??

Ice
I think he means if you try and pump down a normal compressor it will go into a vaccum and if you cannot pump down its bad valves almost acting like hot gas bypass