Type of Compressor used for propane

[juancalvarezg]

HI to all members. I'm just starting in a refrigeration project of natural gas. I'm interested in the type of compressor used for this purpose and its configuration.

thanks for your help

[icecube51]

try the old R22 ones,just be sure the gas isn't flammeble or explosif

Ice

[Magoo]

Icecube 51.
natural gas is totally explosive, all electrical equipment should be explosion proof, right down to the light fittings.
My recommendations is do not go there.
similar retro-fit here with propane, killed one fireman and trashed three more firemen for life. Stupid client saved money without all the safety add-ons, cold store complex burnt to the ground. Manslaughter criminal charges pending.
magoo

[NoNickName]

Oh, come on, half of sweden and denmark are living on propane air conditioning and refrigeration.
Contact me off list, juan calvarez.

[modvalve]

Bitzer compressors are the best for propane dont use Frascold as they aren't very reliable

[NoNickName]

Bitzer compressors are the best for propane dont use Frascold as they aren't very reliable

Said from the same guy who affirmed http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142641#post142641 this, makes me wonder whether this man had a chance of ever looking at one.

I also think that your post is in breach of the forum rules, as no advertising is allowed.

[icecube51]

Mr Magoo, as i said before, "be sure to use unflammeble type of gas" ....
there is a prebt one avalable R270,i think.

Ice

[modvalve]

I also think that your post is in breach of the forum rules, as no advertising is allowed.


I wouldn't call an opinion advertising.
Bitzer are the only compressors we use for propane use

[Magoo]

Hi Icecube 51,
I think something has got lost in translation, re-check your earlier post.

No nick name, I can accept A/c and similar hermetic systems on propane and nat/ gas. In this neck of the world larger systems are regulated to hell and back. For reasons previously posted.
Modvalve , I think you has piss#d the guy off from Frascold.

[US Iceman]

juancalvarezg,

You must be working on a cold box. The few natural gas systems I have worked on used propane for the cooling.

Just about any compressor will pump R-290. This is the refrigerant number for refrigeration grade propane, although the propane you will be using could have a lot of other gases in it (ethane, etc).

Two issues on propane systems. All of the electrical controls and motors should be explosion-proof construction for the area where the system is installed. The other problem is oil mixing with the propane. If you get the proper oil then it is not an issue.

[Magoo]

US Iceman
Hi, we concurr, ethane , methane, propane, what ever thane. It will go bang with a spark.
My general advise to tech's that have not had new wave refrigerant experience, particually with the 'thane ' added name is get up-skilled before going there.
Regionally several years ago, gas supplier introduced this great drop-in for vehicle A/C systems, basically "propane in a tin ", not good. OK after a car prang, most survive, but were fried when the a/c exploded the car in a fire ball. Not a good look.
magoo

[123-steve909]

i worked for a big commercial refrigeration manufacturer who "claim" to be pioneers of hydrocarbon in commercial refrigeration (thats another story)

when the compressor manufacturers could not offer a hydrocarbon compressor, they were told by the manufacturers to use R404a comps with spark proof electrics. they made over 10000 cabinets before there was a true hydrocarbon compliant compressor with no problems whatsoever

[Peter_1]

I have a cascade running on ethylene/propylene on semi-hermetic DWM/Copland's.
There's no oxygen nor air in a circuit, so there can be no internal explosion.
You need 3 conditions: presence of a combustible matter, presence of an oxidant like air or oxygen and an ignition.

[123-steve909]

an ideal ignitor is the klixton or a mechanical thermostat

[Peter_1]

In the compressors I know, there's no clixon any longer in it (Kriwan) But you still don't have air nor oxygen in the right quantities.

[NoNickName]

In the compressors I know, there's no clixon any longer in it (Kriwan) But you still don't have air nor oxygen in the right quantities.

Correct. Even then, LFL and HFL (lower flammability limit and higher flammability level) limit the possibility of ignition. That means that an over saturated or under saturated solution of air or O2 and HC may not be able to ignite.

[123-steve909]

im not talking inside the compressdor im saying outside the comp

[NoNickName]

Outside there shall be no refrigerant, and in case of catastrophic leakage, the unit shall be designed to vent the leakage.
After all, how many LPG and methane cars are happily running in the world and nobody dies because of that?

[US Iceman]

There is a lot of discussion here about smaller propane refrigeration systems used for commercial or residential use I think. This is something important to consider, however, the original poster asked about compressors for what I suspect is an industrial process.

The jobs I have worked on in this application all used Howden screw compressors (WCVH model I believe). These are the low oil flow models to ensure the compressor discharge temperature stays high enough to prevent gas condensing in the discharge side of the system.

Propane has a low specific heat ratio so the discharge temperatures can be too low if the regular WRV models are used. This is due to the higher oil volumes injected in the WRV models.

Other than the electrical requirements because of the much larger refrigerants charges (than say commercial or residential applications) the majority of the system design is similar to any other process refrigeration system.

[NoNickName]

Yes, and that's why common practice with propane involves the use of an internal SGHX.

[pwestuk]

I work for a bakery who use brine chillers to cool fridges and freezers these run on R1270 refrigerant branded Care 45. They are built by Frigadon in Sweden to the best of my knowledge and use semi hermetic Bitzer compressors for the low temperature applications and copeland scroll compressors for the high temperature applications. When designing your system don't forget to consider the F-Gas regulations which have quite specific safety requirements for hydrocarbon systems regarding system charges and installation locations.

Best of luck

Paul

[Jarkin]

Hello there
I’m a new in this site. I’m working with Howden Mk1AS/WRVi365/165/021. I have a question, is there any difference between Mk1S/WRVi365/165/089 and Mk1AS/WRVi365/165/021???. We have changed it one year ago. After changing compressors some problems are appeared. For example: cooling characteristic got to low in hot temperature in out side (+ 35). Before we can keep in chiller -13°C now it possible only -10 °C. Supplier says that compressors a changeable.
Pls help!!!!

[ping]

A lot of gas plants are using Frick, Mycom, Howden and there are no problems, but must to have more care and antiexplosive equipments

[Jetasia]

I agree, propane as a refrigerant works great! Someone needs to work with it. Just check prices of ***** and compare. Yes fires are most possible in a car set-up. Just use care and test before you confirm. Any ***** can be just as deadly.