Fresh air in the Cold stores

[smpsmp45]

One of the sites had a audit from International firm. They want an explanation on why fresh air in not required in the cold stores like what we provide for Airconditioning.

Is there any good info on this?

There is a combination of chiller / freezers in the project.

[US Iceman]

They want an explanation on why fresh air in not required in the cold stores like what we provide for Air conditioning.


Ventilation is introduced every time a door is opened into the cold store. There is a lot of fresh air each time, which is seen when you perform the door heat load calculations for the infiltration rates. The door loads are usually one of the biggest cooling loads already without adding to that with minimum ventilation requirements.

Office buildings are very tight and when you factor in the high personal density in an office building the minimum ventilation is required for a good environment. Cold stores on the other hand have a very low people density.

Was this firm an insurance company or some safety audit?

[Sandro Baptista]

I agree with US ICEMAN,

Only a comment I want to do:

If it is cold stores with living products such as fruits, vegetables and so on and if the products are to be storage during much time without service to the cold store so in that case you would to need a ventilator working a "couple" of hours/day to replace the air inside by fresh air outside.

Regards

[Grizzly]

I agree with US ICEMAN,

Only a comment I want to do:

If it is cold stores with living products such as fruits, vegetables and so on and if the products are to be storage during much time without service to the cold store so in that case you would to need a ventilator working a "couple" of hours/day to replace the air inside by fresh air outside.

Regards


ERM!
Living products in a cold store NO!
In a Chill Room Maybe!
The whole idea of storing within a cold store at a minimum of -18c.
Is because everything is inert at that temperature or below.
Even bacteria cannot exist at these temperatures.
Consider that meats and vegetables, fruit juices, tobacco etc. etc are shipped all around the world.
In this environment.
Add fresh air and the chamber heat load goes through the roof.
More importantly the stored produce would spoil!
If this is a customer ask them to pay for dedicated chambers and a disclaimer as to how long the product will keep!
I have heard some stupid things but this one is tops!
Grizzly

[Segei]

One of the sites had a audit from International firm. They want an explanation on why fresh air in not required in the cold stores like what we provide for Airconditioning.

Is there any good info on this?

There is a combination of chiller / freezers in the project.
Why is it required? Do they know the difference between a/c building and cold storage?

[Sandro Baptista]

ERM!
Living products in a cold store NO!
In a Chill Room Maybe!
The whole idea of storing within a cold store at a minimum of -18c.
Is because everything is inert at that temperature or below.
Even bacteria cannot exist at these temperatures.
Consider that meats and vegetables, fruit juices, tobacco etc. etc are shipped all around the world.
In this environment.
Add fresh air and the chamber heat load goes through the roof.
More importantly the stored produce would spoil!
If this is a customer ask them to pay for dedicated chambers and a disclaimer as to how long the product will keep!
I have heard some stupid things but this one is tops!
Grizzly

:confused: I thought that the name cold stores rooms also included the "refrigerated stores" services at +2ºC/0ºC. I'm sorry.

[Grizzly]

:confused: I thought that the name cold stores rooms also included the "refrigerated stores" services at +2ºC/0ºC. I'm sorry.

No need to apologise Sandro.
Basically a cold store is either, so you were correct if WE interpret the original question the way you did.
I would tend to call that a chill room.

Sorry from me, if I appeared to have a go at you.
Still we have managed to clarify a few things hopefully?
Grizzly

[US Iceman]

Here is another example of why we have so many issues in this business. We have too many names for things that can be used to indicate the same thing or something different depending on where you come from in the world.

I'm not saying either is wrong, only that each can mean something different to other people. And, when we use the terms we are familiar with someone else may have a completely different idea of their definition.

cold stores rooms & refrigerated stores

[Grizzly]

Here is another example of why we have so many issues in this business. We have too many names for things that can be used to indicate the same thing or something different depending on where you come from in the world.

I'm not saying either is wrong, only that each can mean something different to other people. And, when we use the terms we are familiar with someone else may have a completely different idea of their definition.

cold stores rooms & refrigerated stores

Your to kind to us all Ice!
Your Moderator traits are showing!
Perhaps smpsmp45 can answer the question for us all?
Grizzly

[US Iceman]

Just trying to keep it friendly!:D

[smpsmp45]

YOu may be surprised that this issue came up at Mcdonalds big warehouse. The info provided by all is fine & good enough, but you know auditors, if they get a reference from a book/ handbook, that is good enough for them.

I shall compile all these points to see if they are satisfied.

[US Iceman]

...if they get a reference from a book/ handbook, that is good enough for them.


Yeas, at that is part of the problem. These people come in as outside hired experts and they do not know enough to do a good job. The result is what you describe. A consultant who reads something and expects it to apply to any and all things regardless of the application or intended use.

It's what we call boiler plate language to show how thoughtful they are when reviewing someone's building. And by reference to this language they show how complete their review is.

It is always interesting when this occurs!;)

[smpsmp45]

Dear US ICEMAN

You have nice way of putting up the things. I was just referring to your posts on Ammonia DX systems & it was very nicely written

[US Iceman]

Thank you. i just say what I think...

One benefit of getting older is you learn something new every day. The downside of getting older is you have more things to forget.:D

[Sandro Baptista]

Thank you. i just say what I think...

One benefit of getting older is you learn something new every day. The downside of getting older is you have more things to forget.:D

I agree with you ICE MAN
:):D

[Magoo]

There is a great saying about consultants, and auditors drop into same league.
"consultants are the ones that come out of the hills and kill all the wounded after the battle is over. "
magoo