Who would be a refrigeration engineer?

[WebRam]

By Tony Deith

What kind of person do you have to be to become a refrigeration engineer? Do you have to be extremely clever or in some cases extremely stupid? Have you ever come across a particular problem or customer and think, why am I doing this?

Being a refrigeration engineer requires many different personalities or hats in order to be able to go about your job with as little hassle as possible. The first hat required is that of a dogs-body, this is worn when we first become trainees. However, this will change later to the hat of a human being once it is realised that we can now perform certain tasks, such as clean condensers and change the odd fan motor. Eventually we progress to that of human being with a personality that can perform a wider range of tasks, such as 24hr call and sometimes the odd first fix. Then comes the scary part - out on your own and without back up. When this stage is reached you have become an engineer (or you think you are.)

You are now out on your own and have a van (that is what it says in the logbook) and a set of tools, but use the term TOOLS lightly. The calls are now flooding in - literally, as most of them are water leaks, this is when you don the hat of a plumber and are now the face of the company in the customers eyes and always will be. As your confidence grows you, begin to feel that you can fix anything, but in reality, half the service department is following behind you and you are affectionately known as the rubber ball as everything you hit bounces. This will disappear over the next year and you will receive the title of engineer who is all right - especially when he covers my 24hr callout. At this point, you empty out all the hats from the bag and put them on at the same time, very fetching.

These hats cover a multitude of sins, firstly the communication hat that is used when bull****ing, I mean explaining to the customer what the problem is or when having a good moan about the job, as if we do that. The next hat is that of diplomat especially as you are the fifth engineer to attend the same problem this week (reference-rubber ball) and the customer is rather upset. Also, reference communication. The majority of engineers are blessed with common sense and some are not. But we are not all perfect, we all have our weaknesses and strengths whether it be in the mechanical or electrical hats that we wear when performing the role of refrigeration engineer, some people wear these hats well, some not so well and some not at all. Some people claim to have these particular hats, but nobody has ever seen them.

Everybody wears their hats differently and in their own style, which shows through in their personalities. Refrigeration engineers are a breed of their own who thrives on overtime and gossip, the juicer the better if you ask me. Over the last few years, good engineers are thin on the ground and less skilled personnel are tagging themselves as refrigeration engineers. That is not to say that not every body who comes into this trade from another trade makes the grade, but a few give the trade a bad name. Now that ACRIB are more involved and the trade is now better regulated the standard of apprentice to engineer should become better.

Tony Deith

[archstanton]

bigman go to sleep

[Tycho]

gonna give this a kick back to the top :)

It's very good, how about making it a sticky?

[US Iceman]

Hey Tycho,

Good call. This should be refreshed for additional input and further reading.

Being a refrigeration guy is not as easy as it looks, right?

[winfred.dela]

. . . . .
The first hat required is that of a dogs-body, this is worn when we first become trainees. However, this will change later to the hat of a human being once it is realised that we can now perform certain tasks, such as clean condensers and change the odd fan motor. Eventually we progress to that of human being with a personality that can perform a wider range of tasks, such as 24hr call and sometimes the odd first fix. Then comes the scary part - out on your own and without back up. When this stage is reached you have become an engineer (or you think you are.)

You are now out on your own and have a van (that is what it says in the logbook) and a set of tools, but use the term TOOLS lightly.
. . . .


Based on the above:
1st stage - Refrigeration Trainee
2nd stage - Refrigeration Technician
3rd stage - Refrigeration Supervisor
Final stage - Refrigeration Engineer. May have the tools minus the van . . . . :(

That's quite a good ladder to climb, but a fresh graduate may get scared when given this idea/ladder in one helping.

Now am asking myself, when did i start the thought that i can consider myself already a Refrigeration Engineer. :confused:

This may take a while to ponder. . . .
Hope i get my answer in this lifetime :)

[Tycho]

Hey Tycho,

Good call. This should be refreshed for additional input and further reading.

Being a refrigeration guy is not as easy as it looks, right?

It's not a job, it's a lifestyle :D or maybe a state of mind :)

[US Iceman]

For a service person every day is a new adventure.

Especially in the summer...:)

[mickandlee]

ME ME ME

I've had over 50 years in refrig and AC fom skinny apprentice to fat and sixty odd - service, installation, sales to trouble shooting and everything inbetween - from fractional hp to 5000TR what a life.

I've met nice guys, b.....s, crooks etc and thats just my guvenors.

Customers from friendly (who usually want somthing extra) to down right nasty, some who know it all and most who dont

But its given me a great, interseting and ever changing though sometimes stressful life and I would not have changed it (well a rich old frigy maybe)

50 odd years in the industry and still learning and loving every day.

This Forum and its contributors are one of the best and most interesting developments in our industry for years.

Remember KEEP IT UP and KEEP IT KOOL

Mick

[Josip]

ME ME ME

I've had over 50 years in refrig and AC fom skinny apprentice to fat and sixty odd - service, installation, sales to trouble shooting and everything inbetween - from fractional hp to 5000TR what a life.

I've met nice guys, b.....s, crooks etc and thats just my guvenors.

Customers from friendly (who usually want somthing extra) to down right nasty, some who know it all and most who dont

But its given me a great, interseting and ever changing though sometimes stressful life and I would not have changed it (well a rich old frigy maybe)

50 odd years in the industry and still learning and loving every day.

This Forum and its contributors are one of the best and most interesting developments in our industry for years.

Remember KEEP IT UP and KEEP IT KOOL

Mick

Nice words Mick:)

Yes, me too;)

Until now I have only 27 years in industrial refrigeration. I must admit, pocket ref plants were never ever of some big interest to me. I am supporting the use of natural refrigeration gases but I know for some good reasons we have to use other gases too, hope day by day lesser.

Of course every day there is something new to learn and this forum definitely contribute a lot, maybe the reason is because all of you are here;)

Best regards, Josip :)

[arcticmonkey]

you must admit that there are less people entering into this business (apart from pissed off plumbers who think they can do fridge)and nowadays all the apprentices do 2 days at college and think they know it all.gone are the days of spending the whole 5 years working alongside an engineer all you get nowadays is cleaning a/c filters and oil strainers for the whole 5 years then told to go out and do the best you can!!!!

[Mike W]

[quote=WebRam;15087]By Tony Deith

What kind of person do you have to be to become a refrigeration engineer?

Usually the son of one, who leaves school and doesn't know what to do.:p

[MTKkeefy]

and nowadays all the apprentices do 2 days at college and think they know it all.

Bloody hell! You don't know the half of it mate! As I mentioned in another post I only work on admin side of things for a Thermoking dealer, so technical knowledge is very much limited, although growing slightly when I come on here to look something up!

However, bloke I have the annoying task of siting next to at work thinks he knows it all because he has..... a brightly coloured fault code chart and AN ELECTRONIC PARTS CATALOGUE!

:rolleyes: Maybe it isn't so bad actully doing the job rather than billing people for having the job done :rolleyes:

[Handyman-1]

you must admit that there are less people entering into this business (apart from pissed off plumbers who think they can do fridge).


Maybe after training some plumbers and helping them learn Refrigeration, they will consider entering this business for good.

I have seen some who did well that started with plumbing and have gone to Refrigeration works.

[Andy]

paltilvasudeo:)

sorry we cannot understand your english please post again.

kind regrds Andy:)

[Greg W]

Engineer to me builds things , I only Fix and maintain large scale comfort cooling systems. A Tech like me has to be the jack of all trades and a master of most. I have lost count of all the service calls ive done , I lost count of the miles ive gone and systems repaired , I have even employed homeless people to mind my wet filters whilst I kept on working Inside. I talk to all levels of people in and out of the boardroom and train my apps to be most outstanding if I think they going to make It however If they dont show the skills needed , I tell them not to waste time. An Engineer is a selfproclaimed tittle of how high you are in chain.
I would never consider myself as an engineer .because IMO i dont rate myself highly. Its a blood job ,and I would say that there are better jobs to have. Like ones the dont involve hot roofs , hot roof spaces , dust ,gases, sh1ty customers and lotts of ladder work to name a few... Conditioning Air for people that only ever noice when its not working ,Lacks meaning. No one rarely says thats some good air, because it cost them a heap of money to cool the minds of there workers/customers.

[Obi Wan]

[quote=winfred.dela;50918]Based on the above:
1st stage - Refrigeration Trainee
2nd stage - Refrigeration Technician
3rd stage - Refrigeration Supervisor
Final stage - Refrigeration Engineer. May have the tools minus the van . . . . :(


I think there should be two more stages;
4th Stage - Refrigeration Engineer. May have the tools minus the van...
5th Stage - Manager , take all the cr*p from bosses and engineers alike.
Final stage - Sub contractor with a Refrigeration Trainee.

Oh the cycle of life is wonderfull!!

Obi Wan

[Lippygit]

I happened to "fall" into AC/ Fridge when I was asked to re-train from Electrician to A/C service , my training never happened due to a lost contract and I became an installer. However after a few years away from my family I chanced my arm going into service and was lucky enough to find a company who were willing to take me on and give me some training. I have now been in the industry for over 9 years and through the power of the internet and sites like this I feel I have made the grade. I am used by my present company as a troubleshooter when our younger engineers , and not so young (who have had all their college training) need assistance in getting to the root of problems. Although I appreciate proper and correct training is a good thing , you cannot beat the college of life, a good engineer is one who can teach himself and be open enough to listen to what others have to offer. Not all of us who move into this industry are cowboys.

[Samarjit Sen]

A refrigeration engineer should be capable to guide the technician, have technical knowledge about refrigeration and other associated work, can design a suitable plant based on the latest technologies, good efficiancy and at the same low power consumption. He should never consider himself as a master in all , as noe refrigeration engineer can be. It is a profession which requires a lifetime of learning and educating himself in this field. He should be humble and willing and eager to learn more.

In the field of refrigeration, there is no end. We learn from our associates, technicians, books and others specially from this forum. One should be open and seek help and knowledge as and when required.

[fatboydim]

aprenticeship= getting MEGGERed, burnt by solder, being another engineers b~tch, getting no thanks, getting dropped off miles from home...... would i do it again? NO!!!! but its my turn now :-)) REVENGE IS SWEET, KEEP THE TRADITION ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!

[C COSTA]

I Work In Carrier For 11 Year`s And I Realy Enjoy It

[snow]

Hello all I am new to RE and I am still currently a student graduating in may. I have landed a job in the refrigeration bussiness. I must be the exception because I an so nervous. Most of my training was for residential HVAC a little commercial thrown in. I am looking forward to the learning experience yet can't help but feel apprehensive. I am hoping to learn a lot from this forum before my first day. After a while I hope to be able to contribute back.

[Gary]

Design Engineer
Service Tech
Installer

These are three very different (although related) job descriptions, requiring different mindsets and different skill sets.

The sooner we acknowledge this, the sooner we can start teaching people what they need to know in order to do their particular jobs.

Who would be a refrigeration engineer? Define which of the above is a refrigeration engineer.

Training? That's for design engineers.

Apprenticeship? That's for installers.

Service techs are simply thrown into the deep end. Those with mechanical aptitude survive. They spend their lives treading water, and as they gain experience they find themselves sucked under less often.

[mr cool]

why do we do it, ive had a bad day and i seriously dont know why i am still in this stressfull, overworked and underpaid, undervalued,anti social, and disrespectful bloody job. are we mental or sadistic? i really cant make my mind up. and as for some other so called engineers that can wire a plug and drive a van, giving us all a bad name, i could go on and on. why do i bother any more!

[Gary]

I once heard it explained this way:

When you start in the trade, fill your mouth with marbles. Each time you encounter a system that has you pulling out your hair, spit out a marble.

When you have lost all your marbles, you are a refrigeration engineer.

[lana]

I once heard it explained this way:

When you start in the trade, fill your mouth with marbles. Each time you encounter a system that has you pulling out your hair, spit out a marble.

When you have lost all your marbles, you are a refrigeration engineer.

I think one has to spit out a marble when he/she solves or at least finds out the problem.
Cheers

[Lippygit]

We solve therefore we are , no one knows the answer , most often neither do we , a good technician never reveals the secrets of the master reset button ( the isolator) how many times has it pulled us all out of the proverbial

[Sledge]

I see this job as one of the most stressful, but rewarding technical jobs you can have. It requires an analytical mind, a clear head, the ability to multi-task, organize, plan and implement. The trade is vast and varied enough that you can make this job as simple, or as technical as you can handle.
It allows you freedom to work in your own way, your own style, usually without supervision. Most jobs and bosses supervise their employees like rats in a cage, which isnt possible in this industry, making this a job ideal for a person who is a bit of a rogue.
Survival in this business requires performance. This isnt the job for a low performer. This is a job where a coaster quickly loses credibility and has trouble being employed.
I started at 16 as an elect apprentice, and once licensed, moved on to a HVAC refrig apprentcieship. Our climate has hot days up to 110F and very high RH down as low as -30F plus wind chill, making the trade in Toronto varied to say the least. Over the last 10 years I have worked in maintenance, both hands on and management, in the newspaper industry and the auto industry. Both those industries think that they have the bragging rights to being better places to work, with good conditions and higher pay. I can tell you that in my opinion, the refrig business is the place to be.

[abdulazman]

Hi web n all you fellas,

ACRIB = A Complete Rest in Bed.

Adios Amigos

[gas_n_go]

Ive always attributed being in this profession be linked to me being dropped on my head as a small child.


Funny you should use the hat analogy. I do that too. I once showed up at a service meeting in the dead heat of the summer wearing a firemans hat as a joke. I actually went as far as buying several hats from the dollar store and handed them out to everybody and we all paraded into the shop with our hats on, just to bust our supervisors chops.

Anyhow the hat thing, I often describe my job as one that requires many hats. Allow me to share with you thats I wear.
1: sherlock homes cap - sometimes you gotta be a detective collect the clues and figure out who is lying and who isnt.
2: doctors cap - we both have to be on call, we get called when our case is running a fever, First thing we do when we exam our patient is ram a thermometer up his ass, then we strap on gauges and get his blood pressure, we check his reflexes with our little multimeter, maybe a neurology work is called for, and after we bail them out of thier crisis and give them advice on how to prevent it from reoccuring that they inevitablly ignore, we send them a bill that they refuse to pay. The only difference really between us and them is they get a pretty nurse to chase around the office all day and we to look at our people like dan our moderater from jadeco every morning ( boy did i screw up in career decissions)
3: firemans hat: - summertime drill putting out fires
4: janitors cap - summertime over now its time to go clean up the messes we left out thier
5: dunce cap - self explanitory

[airconadam]

hey arctic monkey i think you got a really good point ther ihave done 2 years in college been doing this now since i left school so 3 years now,iam out on my own and love it i learn more now than i did in colloege but i still lack in a whole lot of stuff as you will know but i always have my phone next to me hehe best tool in the box. i would like to go out with an older engineer now again and go to more complex fault etc rather than the drain leaking or lose flare nut or even go back to college but thanks again

adam:D:D

[squil]

Hi web n all you fellas,

ACRIB = A Complete Rest in Bed.

Adios Amigos

Totally agree

[yoelyeve]

Hey Tycho,

Good call. This should be refreshed for additional input and further reading.

Being a refrigeration guy is not as easy as it looks, right?

remember. super-heat is a measurement not OK or yes I think
and its easy if you know wat your doing

[UTEserpentine]

do you have an area for equipment? Tube and wire bending?

[ozairman]

remember. super-heat is a measurement not OK or yes I think
and its easy if you know wat your doing

I do tech support for a major AC brand, I usually get called an A$$hole when I ask technicians where I can get a set of gauges like theirs that reads in good,ok or normal. Likewise for the special thermometers they have which read out with words not numbers.

And I disagree the worst thing that happened to the service industry was mobile phones, just about everyone has lost the ability to fault find due to it.

[The MG Pony]

I do tech support for a major AC brand, I usually get called an A$$hole when I ask technicians where I can get a set of gauges like theirs that reads in good,ok or normal. Likewise for the special thermometers they have which read out with words not numbers.

And I disagree the worst thing that happened to the service industry was mobile phones, just about everyone has lost the ability to fault find due to it.

Now days the McDonald lackies have the badge "Customer service engineer" Now with the lable like that you'd figure they'd at least get my order right!

A term all to loosely handed out it seems?!

Oh love the gauge line, got to remember that one, I've don that my self, bad habbit I guess.

[Gary]

I do tech support for a major AC brand, I usually get called an A$$hole when I ask technicians where I can get a set of gauges like theirs that reads in good,ok or normal.

Better yet, they should report saturation temperatures. Then you wouldn't have to convert on your P/T chart. Reporting pressures just adds to the confusion.

[TOTTIHS]

Methinks when you have been at it for double figure years,work upwards of 60 hours a week & call it an easy week, can recall a lot of the jobs you done 15 years ago & what a fool the operator/customer was, earn a good bit more than the average have at least 1 failed relationship have numbers in your phone & keys on your keyring of a lot of places you really shouldn't it's time you called yourself a Refrig FOOL
WHERE has my life GONE ??????
I told the guy the first day I didnt fancy it so what happened

[richardb14]

well the salary hasn't gone up much in the last ten years, the cost of living has. when you consider that a plumber, sparky, joiner AND a plasterer make more than you - is it time to move on?

[Sheffy]

all good if you do a few split ac units a week

[ozairman]

all good if you do a few split ac units a week

Yaay the split basher the bane of the australian air conditioning industry, Sorry :D

[ibraheem]

:cool:











My response to this interesting aticles in considering myself affilate to this said title, but to be sincere as we all know that engineering level is catigorically highly levelled person that already equipped with at least degree level in mechanical engineering and working exprience in the area of hvacr, and to be specific he might have a good experience in refrigeration more.
But I am really agree with all friends that every one of us have various capability that depends on field experience, should i look at my self and my experience that less than 15years in deferent hvacr field , start with field tech, tech coordinatior , installer, then sales , and project supervisor, till the day as refrigeration project sales engineer, i feel my knowledge in this very large field is little , as alway i need more information from other colleague , that make me realize that the title refrigeration engineer is by it self challenge for any one affilated to that, and that is the reason i joined this forum, and i will appreaciate to have personal friend of well exprienced person here in the field or installation and design of cold storage , i will appreciate any friend to give me his contact e-mail ,or let us have some interraction, provided the person is working in the cold storage projects with good experience.













Design Engineer
Service Tech
Installer

These are three very different (although related) job descriptions, requiring different mindsets and different skill sets.

The sooner we acknowledge this, the sooner we can start teaching people what they need to know in order to do their particular jobs.

Who would be a refrigeration engineer? Define which of the above is a refrigeration engineer.

Training? That's for design engineers.

Apprenticeship? That's for installers.

Service techs are simply thrown into the deep end. Those with mechanical aptitude survive. They spend their lives treading water, and as they gain experience they find themselves sucked under less often.

[techie]

u go man its so true worst thing is fix other peoples f###ups

[abet_meneses]

:):)morning guys,as a refrigeration personnel with 21years behind on the industry,i started as apprentice,helper,technician,mechanic,foreman,project supervisor,project estimator,and now as refrigeration designer on supermarket refrigeration.aspiring to be a refrigeration personnel on industrial refrigeration with a limited experience on ammonia system,mr iceman maybe can help me find literatures,books,or drawings with valves installed on a complete system.

[philfridge]

Yep i agree you gotta be pretty brainy to fiddle your sheets lol

[PVA]

Hm-m-m-m, I like refrigeration and like my work as refrigeration engineer.

[imci]

i am piping engineer but i like this forum.We can find great information here