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View Full Version : new!! not an engineer just interested r290/600 blend







totalacedude
24-03-2009, 10:45 PM
hi guys

have a question....

im not an engineer but just like when i was a child im playing and learning ;)

i have an old peugeot car refigerant leaked and before it goes to the scrap yard i would like to have a play with it. (wont be driving around with hc's in, this is to to learn)

to re gas with r134a is dear and for my purpose no fun!

i have found these blow torch containers of gas
basically they are butane 65% and propane 35%

i have seen that 50% of each works well as a drop in for r134a (ie hychill) is a marketed product and basically this!

could i use the blow torch gas i can get, and would it work with the original r134a tev if not could i get it by adjusting tev, or would the blend be so way off that it wouldnt work...

could any 1 help

and if they could explain in a way id understand id appreciate it lolol

think ive figured out (not sure if im correct or not) that at 40 psi i would prob have (with my 65/35 mix) a bubble point of about 0 c is that too high?

thanks every1!

ian

Grizzly
25-03-2009, 07:23 AM
Are you mad?
You like the idea of creating a mobile BOMB.
It is also a legal requirement to be correctly trained.
Also do you have the required equipment to recover, vacuum and charge this system?
Nice idea to an enquiring engineering mind.
But in reality a big No No!
Grizzly

totalacedude
25-03-2009, 10:51 PM
thanks for the responce, lol i know its a big no no... hence the quote (i wont be driving around in it)

anyway r134a is flammable under pressure is it not? ;o/

any way yea i have the v basic tools ie diy vac pump (old fridge compressor with connectors on end)
nothing to recover anyway... leaked out moons ago!

i have aquired the manifolds and connectors of a friend who is slowing down to retire!

i am only inquiring if this would work and may try (if feasable) as i find doing things in practice stick in your head alot more than reading about it!.

there is actually a product marketed for cars in aus that is just propane and butane 50/50 mix i personally think this is crazy!!!!

i know its a no no but the car will be de gassed beofe i scrap it! and i wont be inside a garage when (or if) i do this!

im more interested in if the pre mixed gas would work! and if some 1 could explain the reasons etc

replaced faulty pipe and just wanted to play before i scrap the car!

like i say im interested in this.... im in no way planning running the car with it in!

the gas is benzomatic butane/propane 65/35 by weight!

any thoughts guys?

thanks ian

(the mad scientest as some of you may think ;o)

The MG Pony
26-03-2009, 03:54 AM
hydrocarbons are verry safe providing you follow proper procedure, don't let the scard ones scare you!, just remember to do your home work!

The average canisters of gas do work well and a considerable number of people have don this in the past.

The R 134a tev will sort of work how ever less then efficient.

icecube51
26-03-2009, 08:30 PM
just make sure that when you start the car or moter for testing,there is nobody around for at least 200mtr. when it blows,its going to be only yourself then. make a movie of it, so its at least a lesson for other experimentals.

suc6 M8, Ice

totalacedude
29-03-2009, 06:34 PM
hi guys! well after a fun weekend im still here!

after vacing down and checking it wasnt leaking i gave it a good charge!

made sure it was a windy day (just incase;o)

took just under 200g of liquid to get it to correct pressures!

i was amased just how well this worked! 5deg c at vents!

removed gas from the system and learnt a fair bit!

like i say it was for experimental purposes only!

and as im only learning about refigeration for interest i took more than normal precautions!
i took with me 3 fire extinguishers container of water!!! lol

just thought id let you all know i still have all my hair and no 3rd degree burns!

cheers ian

Grizzly
29-03-2009, 09:41 PM
hi guys! well after a fun weekend im still here!

after vacing down and checking it wasnt leaking i gave it a good charge!

made sure it was a windy day (just incase;o)

took just under 200g of liquid to get it to correct pressures!

i was amased just how well this worked! 5deg c at vents!

removed gas from the system and learnt a fair bit!

like i say it was for experimental purposes only!

and as im only learning about refigeration for interest i took more than normal precautions!
i took with me 3 fire extinguishers container of water!!! lol

just thought id let you all know i still have all my hair and no 3rd degree burns!

cheers ian

And no one ever doubted you had Balls!
Still doubt it would ever be a practical solution within a moving Vehicle.
Grizzly

The MG Pony
01-04-2009, 05:00 AM
I'd used propane in over 30+++ projects of personal use, and of group use amongst friends, never so much as a flicker, for f&ck sakes, you have 20++ gallons of extremly volitile petrol and your worried about a couple pounds of gas? By Thor where hast thie sense gon?

Propane here in Canada is a recomended for Auto A/C as a replacment due tot he better efficiency, the cans are sold in most auto shops. Moral? HC refrigerants are safer then most!

FYI I call it BBQ grade R-290 for simple shake n bake chillers for the bbq's.

Grizzly
01-04-2009, 06:50 AM
I'd used propane in over 30+++ projects of personal use, and of group use amongst friends, never so much as a flicker, for f&ck sakes, you have 20++ gallons of extremly volitile petrol and your worried about a couple pounds of gas? By Thor where hast thie sense gon?

Propane here in Canada is a recomended for Auto A/C as a replacment due tot he better efficiency, the cans are sold in most auto shops. Moral? HC refrigerants are safer then most!

FYI I call it BBQ grade R-290 for simple shake n bake chillers for the bbq's.


You have a good and valid point there MG.
Sadly we are so regulated here in the U.K.
That even old school Engineers like myself are beginning to question even the simplest jobs.
We don't even fart whilst brazing unless we are wearing flameproof overalls!
The H&S Corporate guys are really squeezing nowadays.
Glad to here you guys still have some latitude.
Grizzly