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Chillerbuilder
22-03-2009, 10:37 PM
I posted yesterday concerning a unit I looked at in California a year ago that was a converted Ultra unit. I was hoping to get some comments. However, it is gone today. Anyway, the unit was powered by hydraulic motors (2) and in addition to being a lot quieter, it had almost no maintenance requirements. That isn't the best part for those of us that keep these things running. I was impressed though with the simplicity of them and was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this company. I found out that they are called SeaBreeze Refrigeration and that their site address is their name plus .com. I am asking because I have a customer who has got to come up with a solution to the strict emission rules now facing a lot of people. I emailed the company and they replied that they are in the last stages of testing the full size trailer unit. Does anyone know of another company producing a similar unit?

Brian_UK
23-03-2009, 12:12 AM
Is this the unit that you designed?

NH3LVR
23-03-2009, 12:42 AM
I remember reading about this a couple of years ago.
One of the people involved was Gene Holt, whom I was acquainted with years ago. The other fellow was Mark Champion. They were working in Eugene, Oregon.
The address is http://www.hydra-cool.com/
As I recall the web site was quite elaborate at one time. It says it is under construction now, but there is a video.

Will
23-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Looks nifty, but I don't know. I mean watts is watts. You can't magically pull them out of the air.

The movie almost makes it sound like the thing runs on nothing.

Chillerbuilder
23-03-2009, 07:22 PM
No, I didn't design it. I like the idea though. As far as who all the people are, I checked out the two names and the one in Eugene, OR, Mark Champion and HydrCool, are listed under a number of scam sites as not one you would want to do business with. The other, Gene Holt, doesn't seem to have a listing in Eugene or anywhere else that I could find, I did look at the seabreeze refrigeration site and there isn't any mention of a truck unit. I don't know. As for the design, It runs off the tractor engine at a much higher efficiency than a diesel in the unit. What I found when talking to the driver was that he didn't need any maintenance work or need to carry an extra fuel tank. I looked at the one on the Hydrcool site and it looked like that one except it was an Ultra unit that had been converted. I would still like to find out if anyone else is producing a similar unt. I read once about a company in the UK and Germany that were working on one. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Oregonbythesea
23-03-2009, 10:20 PM
Hello everyone and thanks for the heads-up Chillerbuilder. If anyone else is interested in where the Hydraulic Transport unit is, email me at Gene@seabreezerefrigeration.com. By the way, I like this site. The field of Transport Refrigeration is kind of a unique niche and it's always been hard to get information about the different units and their changes.

james 100
23-03-2009, 10:44 PM
Is this powered from a power take off from the tractor unit? Great idea if so but what about when it comes to switching off/night stops?:confused:

Brian_UK
23-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Please be careful gentlemen, we do not offer free advertising on this forum.

Technical and general discussion however are always welcomed.

Oregonbythesea
23-03-2009, 11:58 PM
First of all, I have to say that these units are not for sale at this time so I am not sure what I can say without getting banned. The units are run off the engine by mounting on the serpentine belt system. As for night and off time, electric or diesel stand-by. If you want technical answers about the system, email me and I'll see if I can answer them. If it is a general question on how hydraulic systems work, I guess I can answer them in this forum. If not, I am sure we will be warned. I have been building hydraulic systems for fish boats for more than 30 years so I guess I have a few pointers around. It is too bad there isn't a marine refrigeraion section in the Forums. That section is even more remote from the main stream refrigeration industry than transport.

Brian_UK
24-03-2009, 12:23 AM
That's fine Gene, we just get a bit paranoid when two newcomers start and both lean towards the same item.

Yes Marine might be an idea as we have several members with either fish to freeze/store or guests to keep cool whilst on holiday cruising.

Oregonbythesea
24-03-2009, 12:37 AM
Brian, thanks for the info. The type of marine refrigeration I had in mind is the kind on fishboats. Most mechanics won't touch them and it really isn't that bad if a person follows just a few simple rules. First, there aren't any manuals. Second, don't try to be an expert, the owner probably knows more about the system than the mechanic. Third, it is a field where mechanics are always needed that have basic understandings of how the refrigeration cycle operates. The money is good but the conditions aren't always the best in a cramped engine room that can also be over a 100 degrees F. There are all kinds of systems from RSW (refrigerated seawater) to air blast (IQF) systems, plate freezers and just plain freezing systems for holding frozen product. Lots of challange for the bored mechanic.

cadwaladr
24-03-2009, 02:54 AM
petter refrigeration used to make a hydraulic refrigeration system so did hubbard they worked ok usually from a pto from gearbox this technology is as old as the hills

abbsnowman
24-03-2009, 04:47 AM
Very interesting gentlemen!
If I was a betting man my money would be on mounting a generator either on the wheels of the trailer, (also could be used to slow trailer).
If not on the wheels, on the engine of the drive tractor. I strongly believe that the one that comes out with a reliable version of this will be the next big thing. Wish I had as much money as ideas. hahaha:o

Oregonbythesea
24-03-2009, 04:34 PM
Cadwaladr, actually Thermo King built 100 units in the 1950's and used them on a fleet for one year. During that year, one belt was replaced. The units were taken off and replaced with diesel units and that was the last that TK wanted anything to do with hydraulics. As for Hubard and Petter, theirs were built just about like TK's. My first two units were like all those units. The modern unit can be better than any diesel driven unit. It can provide lower temperatures in a smaller package. It is just as automatic as you want it to be. The controller is the heart of the unit when it comes to governing itself. There is one thing the hydraulic unit can do that no other type can, it can run without a controller.

Abbsnowman, electric is really old news. Have you ever worked on an old TK unit that had the generator between the engine and the compressor. The wiring was a nightmare. Not to mention the fact that there was 220, 120 AC and 12 DC all in the same package. Just the thing that you wouldn't want to mess with in the rain. Now, Transicold has dug up that technology and is promoting it as something new. How much more complicated do you want to see these units? I still prefer to simple to complicated if it can provide the same result.

clivemtk
24-03-2009, 09:24 PM
to young to remember transfrig they ran unit off trailer axle

SKOOBY
24-03-2009, 10:23 PM
The most reliable all eletric unit is Frigoblock in Europe.
They are manufactured in Germany.
They have trailer units and a hybrid with a smart engine fitted that will reach all emission laws.
They are renowned for there fast pulldown on multidrop deliverys

alpha
24-03-2009, 10:28 PM
Hydraulic transfrigs, that's going back some years!!

I remember nose mount transfrigs on Gateway trailers that were driven off the rear axle. All well and good when the trailer was moving but when the traffic set in the trailers got rather warm with their gappy rear shutters.

Oregonbythesea
24-03-2009, 10:31 PM
I see Transfrig has been in business since 1980 but, I can't see any way to run a unit off a trailer axle. It wouldn't provide any power if it was not moving and even then it would take a variable speed generator or pump to transfer the energy. It would make sense to add a pump or generator to an axle if it was a train and was being pulled all the way across the route without stopping.

Oregonbythesea
24-03-2009, 10:41 PM
Skooby, I see where Transblock is just a split electric system. A generator under, or over, is still a generator. That reduces efficiency to about 60%. No to mention the extra weight that has to be packed around and the diesel fuel. They are able to achieve temperature equal to a hydraulic system though. The problem is the unit is twice as heavy and much more complicated. Thanks for the input though. All thoughts are appreciated.

cadwaladr
24-03-2009, 11:24 PM
here in the uk we have been running eutectic units for years try govets site plug em in overnight last all day the old ones used dole plates semi hermetic condensing units why did thermo king stop makin em no profit in making a unit that is to good and simple

Oregonbythesea
24-03-2009, 11:48 PM
Cadwaladr, you are absolutly right. For daily deliveries, eutectic plates are the way to go. Just like the electric cars coming on the market that can be plugged in overnight. Why waste energy? The problem with the plates is that they are only good for one day and a lot of trips are for multi-days. I was in China a few years ago when one of the people told me their longest continous trip was 7 days. I didn't realize how that could be until he explained that they would go from one side of China to the other side of Russia. Not a trip I would want to make. I don't know why Dole couldn't get more market share for its product.

Will
25-03-2009, 03:13 AM
Have you ever worked on an old TK unit that had the generator between the engine and the compressor. The wiring was a nightmare. Not to mention the fact that there was 220, 120 AC and 12 DC all in the same package.I worked on something like that a few years back. Don't remember calling them TK's thou. Belly mounts weren't they ?, story I heard back then that they were designed by two disgruntled ex employees. One from TK, other from Carrier. Neither one could tell the diff between their ass an a hole in the ground. No # on the wiring, all color coded, damn colors would change 3 times on the way to the evap section.
What a piece-O-shiit.

Oregonbythesea
25-03-2009, 04:12 AM
Will, lol, you're right, they were belly mounts for the most part. I have seen them with only one color, white. They had little numbers on them if you were lucky. That is why I commented on the new Transicold units with a generator incorporated into the unit. They reminded me of those old units. Maybe they were Transicold units after all. If I remember right, I think they did have 5F30's in them. Crap is right. The compressors were good though. The engines were the old Mercedes that were rebuildable and ran forever. I am sure that was at least 30 years ago. Time flys.

thermo prince
25-03-2009, 05:17 AM
Hi Oregon b.t Sea and welcome to forum. With your fishboat background, you must be aware of old FBH (Fishboat Hydraulic-drive) and FBD (Diesel-drive) that TK made quite a few years ago (1960's ?).
Quite a few of those operated on shrimpers off Lousiana & the Gulf Coast ; some down S America way and a few off Thailand & Indonesian waters too. Some still running but not a lot of info about ... and not too many people ever heard of them.
Any memories of those?
Demand for such product in emerging markets. People in AsiaPac still ask if TK could bring them back today!

regards,
T-P

abbsnowman
25-03-2009, 07:47 AM
Ok, first of all we have a good topic here. I haven't seen this kind of action here for quite awhile.
I have read all the posts here and one thing I have said before and will say again is that nature is nature and no one in any of our lifetimes is going to come up with a way to cheat it. Energy isn't free (it burns what it takes to produce),so pick your poison.
Hydrolic power is great until you have to deal with disconnecting source from end user. Other issue is leaks of fluid.
We had some "hydo freeze" units way back and were always fighting oil leaks that went over like a lead baloon in "food distrabution" yards.
I am very interested with this forum but not convinced that "hydrolic" is the "way of the future."
Hope not to offend!
Abbs

Oregonbythesea
25-03-2009, 04:15 PM
ThermoPrince, Yes, I remember the Thermo King hydraulic units. Anytime I had a chance to bid against those units I got the sale. That was in the late 70's and they lost sales to us and Turbo Maine in Tampa who were the ones that made the direct diesel units found on a lot of Shrimpers. At one time Turbo tried to combine the hydraulics with the diesel engine. It wasn't too long after that they went out of business. Thermo King shut down their line before 1981 I believe. Transicold also had a unit called a Dolphin but it was more parts than complete unit. The biggest problem with a Truck unit being used in a fishboat is the evaporator fin spacing. Our evaporators are constructed with the first two rows at 2 fins/inch while the remaining rows are 4 fins per inch. The reason is that freezing a product, especially in very wet environment, is much different that holding a frozen product in a dry environment. The defrost cycles on a truck unit are too often to be an efficient system. I don't think you will ever see Thermo King or Transicold produce another fish boat unit.

AbbsSnowman, I only had one hydraulic hose break in 30 years and it was caused by a faulty hose crimp. Since then we measure each hose to make sure it can't happen again. Another thing we do is to use only one kind of fitting. All motors and pumps have male JIC while all hoses have female JIC which is a 37 degree bevel fitting. They are very easy to connect or disconnect. As for the connections between the unit and the tractor, there are a lot of fittings out there that will connect and disconnect without ever loosing a drop of fluid. We have one that quick connects to hoses with one block that operated much like a fire hose fitting. Parker offers ones with up to 6 hoses at once. The distribution yards don't want to change anything. Mostly because the Donkey drivers don't like getting off their little rig. The distribution yards will have to do something soon though. The precool requirements will have to be met and more and more locations don't want the diesels run in those yards. Here on the West Coast of the U.S., it is getting harder and harder to run the diesel units anywhere without actually going down the road. No offense taken, I only promote the hydraulic units because I know what they can do and don't see a better option out there. We sell electric units and diesel driven units so I am always looking for a way to improve on what we do. I ran across a company recently that had a new type of alternator with really high efficiency that I thought would maybe provide a way to drive the fans and even small compressors. The company is Aura Systems, Inc. in California. It turns out they make an electric straight truck unit. The problem I saw right away was a flaw in the design for the evaporator fans and then when I checked out the size of the 15 kW alternator, I was back to the hydraulic pump. Hope everyone keeps bringing up their concerns and experience.

SKOOBY
25-03-2009, 09:36 PM
I Am afraid hydraulics are in the past.
They leak oil. I have worked on most units that have been produced in the uk since the mid seventys starting with the HPA With a sunstrand pump.
By the way its not Transblock its Frigoblock They produce there own alternator that runs off the truck or tractor unit engine Produces upto 42kw and does not loose capacity on idle or partial load. The actual fridge is very light as the main part is fibreglass.

Oregonbythesea
25-03-2009, 11:26 PM
Scobby, I see by your comments that you don't like hydraulics. That is what is nice about this field, there is room for everyone. I would rather have an oil leak than a short in an AC electrical system in the rain. I would also rather have a fully automatic system with 4 wires of 12 DC than a bundle. The hydraulic 40 hp pump weighs 78 pounds while the motors weigh 15 pounds. The systems that leak are due to faulty workmanship. I meant Frigoblock, oops. Their claims are a little stretched though. They are not the coldest unit on the market. I know of at least one running at -80F. Ours also run at -40 C or F. I like the way they designed the unit though. Very thoughtful to make it hinge out from the trailer. Probably makes it a lot easier to mount on new equipment or to replace it. You might want to check out Aura Systems in California. They claim to have a even better alternator.
What it comes down to for me, is the ability for a regular refrigeration mechanic to fix the unit without any "factory training". When it comes to remote locations in second and third world countries, simple is the rule.

abbsnowman
26-03-2009, 04:59 AM
I am listening for sure. I own a transport refrig. company that waves no flags. (at this point) so I am always very interested and un-bias to all that is out there.
This forum is good conversation. Keep talking, I'm just gonna grab another beer. Want one?:)

thermo prince
26-03-2009, 07:14 AM
Hi Oregon By Sea again.
I think we all agree with you on the point of simplicity and reliability is prerequisite in advanced markets, not alone 3rd world or emerging markets. Its very obvious that you are very enamoured and dedicated to hydraulic drive. I used to and still do like such drives too but I agree with Abbs and Skooby that there are definite limitations to tractor-trailer combinations using it for refrigeration drive.

Quick release couplings aside, there's always dirt, moisture, and real possibility contaminated oil from one rig being passed to another.( like when several farm tractors connect to different tipper trailers or implements)

I do agree for rigid truck in downtown / urban delivery environment, they probably are as attractive as eutctic/cryogenic or direct/SP units. Airport Hi-Loaders or Catering Service truck is another ideal application as those trucks are just a maze of hydraulics anyhow for scissors and stabilizer legs.

While on the regular road rigid truck unit side, TK looked at that in recent years with hydraulic powered KH 11 which was equivalent in performance to a Yanmar powered KD11. With cost of hydraulic pump ( like a Volvo constant flow, costing over GPP 1500 if memory serves) oil coolers ( and space to fit the cooler) , Bosch type hydraulic motor (s), reservoirs, pressure regulators, flow and return high pressure hoses etc etc - where is the saving ?
Plus they still need cleanliness inside the lines and regular maintenance.
Finally .... similar shortcoming to direct drive or off-engine compressor, there's no refrigeration or airflow once the prime mover stops!
So what does that do for our load once driver is at trailer stop, overnight rest, motorway services on ferry etc etc? Plus anti idling laws are discouraging/outlawing the running of large HP prime movers just to maintain driver comfort nowadays. ( Hence the advent of APU's)

Hubbard and Petters did make some pretty good solid gear back then and to answer Skooby, I think the reliability of hoses, crimp fittings and so forth has come a long way since 70's-80's( just look at the quality of stainless steel refrigerant vibrasorbers for truck and bus nowadays as example compared to 20yrs ago - from likes of Radcoflex,Aeroquip,United Flexible as compared to Anaconda)

For urban deliveries in small van or rigid, hydraulic, eutectic or direct drive may still have merits. It's hard to see it taking off on intercity tractors & semi trailers.

On the point of fishboat, I dont know the history of the how/why /who won the market share or why TK-Carrier may have dropped out of it.
Your comment on the evap fin spacing is unrelated really to the issue of merits of hydraulic drive as primary input power source but we certainly enjoy your recollections and perspective. It is an interesting topic for sure.

best regards
T-P

RefrigNoob
26-03-2009, 08:39 AM
I just started in the refrigiration business. I come from the heavy materials handling indutry. Design of materials handling equipment like fork lifts container handlers etc. I was then moved to diamond delving equipment. Pans, dense media sperators etc. Now I wound up in mobile refrigiration.

Based on my experience with hydraulics years ago, I won't be going the hydraulic route with our trailer units. Or van units for that matter. I just don't consider it viable, but especially so on trailer units.

Though conditions and practices probably differ alot from country to country. For me to fit a hydraulic pump to a horse before it can hook up a customer's trailer is just not on. If the horse and trailer are married, you end up with all sorts of other problems. You'll have a quick coupler system somewhere. Which now means you need to filter the oil twice. Once before it enters the suction to the pump, and again under high pressure before it enters the motor. Then your reservoir has to be either large enough to allow the oil time to cool, or you'll have to fit oil coolers. Air-to-oil probably,e lse you'll have to pipe cooling water to the heat exchanger.
Though hydraulic systems are very efficient, they still have their bypass and thermal losses like any other system. Belt drives have slip, belt heat, tensioner bearing and belt alignment losses. And run in the high 80s to low 90s% efficiency. Alternators and motors run at low to mid 90s if the minimum load is kept above 40% and rated capacity above 1-2hp.

All drive types have their losses and all generally run at around 90% if well maintained.

I can see noise pollution advantages, on fixed body type vehicles, for hydraulic drives though. Will the fans each have it's own hydraulic motor? Or will it be a belt drive system?

SKOOBY
26-03-2009, 12:48 PM
Some manufacturers on small direct drive are using inverters to run systems.
ABBS another beer please:cool:

Oregonbythesea
26-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Wow, I got in the office this morning and saw the answers to my comments with a little surprise. Abbsnowman, it is very nice that the users of these units are still looking at options instead of just going with the flow. The beer would have been nice but it is too early now. Thanks anyway.

Thermo Price, lots of nice thoughts, you know your business. I am only hyped on hydraulics because it has solved a lot of problems when it comes to reliability where we use it. We also provide electric units that function just as well where they are the best fit. I just feel that for the transport unit where "Green" is so important now, and in the future, dependability and low maintenance should be the prerequisite. I have looked at electric and hybrid units as options without finding any real solution. To me it always comes back to the basics. I have hydraulic units running that have been in service for more than 20 years that the owners maintain on their own. The objective, for me, was to create a refrigeration package, marine or transport, that the owners can maintain on their own whether they are a one man operation or a fleet. Hybrids require too many batteries and weigh too much. Eutectic systems, even hybrid eutectic, have limited range and require long pull down periods once warmed. Electric is a simple system for the trained mechanic. The owner operator, or fleet driver, isn't the one you want messing around inside the enclosure. The liability alone is more than enough reason to keep the doors shut. Even then, it is just a matter of time until the lawsuits start. In today's world you have to built things that are almost child proof to sell to the general public. In the properly designed hydraulic unit, the only moving parts that are at all assessable are the evaporator fan and the condenser fan. Those two fans are not easy to get at, let alone put a finger in. Even then, warnings must be plastered on the unit.
Now, for the hooking and unhooking of trailers and combination units. Hydraulics can power doubles, triples and even trains form the tractor. Yes, some care has to be taken to keep dirt out of the oil. But, the amount of oil in the modern unit is somewhat like the oil in the power steering system of the truck. The modern reservoir only has about a gallon and a half of oil. I am not sure how you would contaminate a system in a year or two that would require changing the oil. We use suction filter to keep the pump clean and a regular filter near the reservoir to protect the system. A little care needs to be taken prior to connecting the hoses but, no more than would be required of the glad hands being connected for the air. When you talk about farm equipment, you are referring to old style low pressure systems with open reservoirs which usually have 10 to 20 gallons of oil in them. It is like comparing oranges to apples. Next, the cost. Pumps are expensive and so are the motors. However, the cost of the diesel engine, fuel tank, battery, muffler, ect, ect are more. Which would you rather change out, a compressor with 10 to 25 horsepower motor that weighs about 100 pounds or the existing diesel engine? The fully automatic 44,000 BTU @ -25 F hydraulic unit weighs about 600 pounds. The pump, reservoir, cooler and hoses on the tractor add another 150 pounds. Show me a system that can reduce the weight, be as easy to maintain, be as long lasting, provide cooling power no other system can possibly provide at those weights and I would be happy to look at it.

Skooby, the inverter systems are a really good idea for the smaller units and should be in more use with high efficiency alternators and hybrid systems like Eaton is making.

RefrigNob, good points! The newer systems do have all the filter and cooling required in a very little package. We maintain the oil at 120F on the so it doesn't change viscosity which in turn maintains motors speeds at their settings. There are two hoses that connect to the trailer, one 5/8" and one 3/4". The pressures in the system never runs over 3,000 psi and usually operates around 2,300 psi at satisfied box temperature. As to the number of fans, one belt now with plans to eliminate it.

Please keep the comments coming, I want to see what everyone thinks about all the types of units. Good mooring in Canada, Good Evening in the UK and hope your sleeping well in Hong Kong.

cadwaladr
27-03-2009, 03:47 AM
to be honest you are speaking clap[trap this debate has gone as far as i can take we in the uk are miles ahead
of you and you are playing catch up china 7 days journey times get real what man can drive for 7 days get real even horses have to be watered

Oregonbythesea
27-03-2009, 03:55 AM
Get a life.

cadwaladr
27-03-2009, 03:55 AM
even carrier and thermo king admit we in the uk were the pathfinders in multi temp followe our lead why are the majority of your units engine only i know this because we had to modify units in the field i dont see peoiple in cali driving to china lets end the forum here enough said

abbsnowman
27-03-2009, 04:56 AM
to be honest you are speaking clap[trap this debate has gone as far as i can take we in the uk are miles ahead
of you and you are playing catch up china 7 days journey times get real what man can drive for 7 days get real even horses have to be watered

Didn't your mommy teach you anything? If you don't have anything nice to say...Shut the F*&%$ up.
You are being a closed minded dip****. We are simply discussing an idea.
Seriously dude, don't post if your simply wanting to adverstise your shoe size, er I mean IQ. You only harm your credibilty when you actualy need our help. (Which you will, I can assure you.)
Click...next

abbsnowman
27-03-2009, 05:03 AM
Here ya go skooby, cheers......

Oregon, go on......

RefrigNoob
27-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Oregon,
At the end of the day the only, and I mean only question that matters is: Does it work for you?
And it obviously does. Might not work for me or others, but that doesn't mean that the unit doesn't fullfill a need.
Keep at it!

SKOOBY
27-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Fridges in the UK are overspec anyway for the journey times.We are discussing here subject with people who are living in large continents.I was watching a programme on China where the guy delivered a washing machine on the rear of a motorcycle.
Daily distribution on rigids is the largest growth area in the uk.
The Trailer market is not what it was.
We need to feed off one anothers ideas Thats how forums survive

Oregonbythesea
27-03-2009, 04:20 PM
Thanks guys. I wasn't even going to respond to his remarks any further because he obviously doesn't know much about the rest of the world. We have teams that drive for 3 days straight here in the US. From one side of China to the other side of Russia is twice as far with worse roads than most of us ever have to use. But, hey, that is his limited knowledge speaking and that's the way I took it. The wierd part of that China trip is the fact that they did it with ice. The problem we were discussing that day was the introduction of mechanical refrigeration equipment. They lost 50% of their loads and wanted to reduce that loss. China has a long way to go to catch up. Anyway, maybe this subject is worn out. Time to move to another.

The Fox
29-03-2009, 10:04 AM
There was a guy in the UK, Steve Mayo (i think the surname is spelt wrong).He was ex mtk. He develpoed a bolt on hydrolic motor that could be fitted to a standard TK fridge. It bolted on or around the elect. mtr. He added an additional pully to the mtr. and hey presto you had the option to run the fridge from the truck. i understand he did a demo for TK , do not know how it went or if he is still working on it, anybody else know anything??

Oregonbythesea
29-03-2009, 03:10 PM
Interesting idea Fox. It could work without the controller I guess. It would be nice to know what TK thought of it. I haven't known them to be very interested in anything they didn't developed.

SKOOBY
29-03-2009, 09:34 PM
I Think you are talking about Steve Maile.
The hydraulic unit i thought he was involved with actually ran a generator on the tractor unit and operated the fridge through the three phase eletric
socket on the fridge unit
Have not heard anything of it for a few years

Oregonbythesea
29-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Using hydraulics to power a generator is a clean application. We once converted a 20 Kw Lima Mac to hydraulic drive using the same pump and motor that was used on the fish boat reefer units. It worked well. In fact, a little controller available at the time would hold the cycles to within 1/10 of a cycle. I thought about it for awhile but it didn't solve the problems of weight and dependability. I was, then and now, more interested in a unit that could be maintained by in-house employees. I know of at least a couple motorhomes using hydraulic gen sets to provide full power while traveling. Using an electric motor as a back-up to the prime mover is probably the best hope for the future unit.

djbe
31-03-2009, 08:05 PM
I Think you are talking about Steve Maile.
The hydraulic unit i thought he was involved with actually ran a generator on the tractor unit and operated the fridge through the three phase eletric
socket on the fridge unit
Have not heard anything of it for a few years

He's still around peddling the idea.

He has actually tried both, the hydraulic motor driving the diesel unit electric motor that The Fox mentioned and the other that Skooby mentioned.

I believe he has settled on the hydraulic/electric system now.

Interestingly although he will tell everyone that it was his idea he took it from a firm called TRS transportkoeling in Holland. He was involved with them for a while and started to develop his own when he left.

I look after a few TRS refrigeration units on rigid vehicles, they use belt driven hydraulics off the truck engine to drive the the hydraulic motor which is bolted directly to the mains standby motor. When on the road the standby motor generates 400v 3phase to power the evap. and cond. fan motors.

They work really well, with excellent pulldown and recovery times and are quiet with very few leaks from the hydraulic system.

Oregonbythesea
31-03-2009, 08:41 PM
Djbe, thanks for the input. Hydraulic/electric is what makes the most sense to me. We have one that uses a Bitzer that we converted to hydraulic also. It runs from the tractor engine (truck engine) hydraulic pump while it is in use. Once the trailer, or truck, is parked, the electric cord is plugged in. I would like to know how to get in touch with. Does anyone know if he has a business name or web page? Have a great evening, or morning, as the case may be.

thevicar
01-04-2011, 12:24 AM
Sorry to reply to this thread after 2 years! Eco-Drive Systems Ltd and Mr. Maile parted company some time ago. I don't know what he's doing now. The last I heard he was at Eco-Fridge. The unit has undergone massive redevelopment work since his time. It can deliver cash and CO2 savings and is quiet and reliable. The cash savings depend on many factors. Obviously tractor fuel usage increases but trials show that the increase is minimal. That has to be set against reefer fuel savings. As the unit is rented, there is no capex. A great idea whose time has come, with red at over 60p per litre.