recovering ammonia

[MRW]

I have been called by a freind out in the middle east,
he has a system with ammonia in and wants to decommission it,he thinks about 700kg,
ive heard you recover it into water,
what do you do with it then ,ecspecially this quantity,
thanks for any help.

[NH3LVR]

You can mix it with several thousand gallons of water. Disposal can be a problem. I have no idea of your friends circumstances.
I have disposed of it into the sewer system after mixing it with water and consulting the local authorities.
Some hazardous waste companies will take it.
Having decommissioned a few plants I can tell you it is not a job for a novice.
In any case after you have it down to 0 pressure I use a vacuum pump to get the last bit, with several air purges.

[VGV]

Would check with the local ammonia supplier... As NH3LVR says, "it is not a job for a novice"..... You end up with hazardous material even when mixed with water.

If the plant is to be left intact, you may want to consider a nitrogen charge to keep moisture out of the system.

[Quality]

http://www.polarpumps.co.uk/E200L-liquid-pump.html
Try this I know that they sell this machine dedicated for transfering anhydrous ammonia liquid. Th erest of the vapour could then be purged to water

[brian_chapin]

We use a mixture of 3 pounds of Citric Acid to 1 gallon of water to form a liquid that will neutralize a liquid ammonia spill – the resulting liquid can be disposed of without further environmental concern, as in it is not a hazardous material if you apply enough to get a neutral PH.

You can test it out yourself on a small amount of liquid ammonia to see how much acid mixture you would need.

We've used this on a few minor liquid spills and it is very, very effective.

[Josip]

Hi, MRW :)


I have been called by a freind out in the middle east,
he has a system with ammonia in and wants to decommission it,he thinks about 700kg,
ive heard you recover it into water,
what do you do with it then ,ecspecially this quantity,
thanks for any help.


.... the best will be to recover it into special tank and return to fertilizer factory....

... this is not the second best advice, but releasing ammonia as a gas into air you will not harm the nature at all .... gaseous ammonia can be in the air at some amount (dairy farms) it is natural gas and mother nature will take care about .... need only some longer time .... think about;)


Best regards, Josip :)

[Grizzly]

I have been called by a freind out in the middle east,
he has a system with ammonia in and wants to decommission it,he thinks about 700kg,
ive heard you recover it into water,
what do you do with it then ,ecspecially this quantity,
thanks for any help.
Yes you can neutralise large amounts of ammonia through Water.
But I would not like to be responsible for anyone getting it wrong.
So I will only say that the normal way to recover is by specialised Ammonia recovery Tanker.
As far as I am aware there are but 2 operating within the U.K.
And they give two options.
1) removal and destruction certification supplied.
Which is expensive.
OR
2) removal and disposal through agriculture. As Josip refers to, it is injected into low grade hay. Which raises it's feed value apparently!
It is very popular in areas where the grass grown is of a lower quality.
Anyway because there is a resale value it's removal price is reduced.
I don't know how this would help someone in the Middle East though?
Grizzly

[ART KUHN]

I've heard about recovering in a flair but donot know any thing about it maybe someone else here??

[RGover]

Hi as mixing water & ammonia forms an alkaline you can neutralize it by using an acid, taking a small sample to test with litmus paper.:cool:

[keepitcool]

This is the environmentally friendly refrigerant. Why not recycle it? Call a supplier and the will come pump it out for him. (at least in America). I think it would be the same everywhere.

[Grizzly]

Hi as mixing water & ammonia forms an alkaline you can neutralise it by using an acid, taking a small sample to test with litmus paper.:cool:

Why when water is neutral Ph and AMMONIA is an alkali. Would it form an alkaline.
Adding water is suffice.



This is the environmentally friendly refrigerant. Why not recycle it? Call a supplier and the will come pump it out for him. (at least in America). I think it would be the same everywhere.


I agree more or less what my post suggests, does it not?

Grizzly

[sterl]

All sorts of industries use ammonia. The US plowed 3,670,000 tonnes of it into the ground in 2006: most of it to grow corn....

Ammonia is used in the water desalination industry and I believe the Saudi's have a bit of that going on.

Problem is the lubricating oil: if the plant has been lying idle a good long time, you may want to remove all the oil you can before calling the reclaimer.

Dissolving into water makes an alkaline solution and the absorption is exothermic...to pull a lot of it you will need a source of cooling or a continued source of cool water. Adding a weak acid is a good way to address the aqua, but it forms a sediment (salt), so don't put anything like that into the system.

This thing got cooling towers? Or evap condensers?

[samlee12]

Hello, i decommission ammonia plants all the time. Usually ammonia comes in 100 lbs tanks. I usually pump system down and remove as much liquid as possible putting it back into these 100lbs tanks.liquid will travel to lower pressure so i usually hook tanks up to vacuum pump first so they are in a deep vacuum then hock it up to the drain valve on receiver if the pressure in the tank equalizes to system pressure you can submerse tank in drum filled with ice to lower pressure. After all liquid is recovered then the gas heel can be purge into tanker truck filled with water then disposed of by usually by waste oil company, once system pressure is at 0 psi i usually hook vacuum pump up to system pull into a vacuum then you could to be professional break vacuum with nitrogen. that is what i usually do.

[josei]

I have been called by a freind out in the middle east,
he has a system with ammonia in and wants to decommission it,he thinks about 700kg,
ive heard you recover it into water,
what do you do with it then ,specially this quantity,
thanks for any help.



How do I dispose of ammonia properly?

Check with your local authorities (town, county, state).

Releases of ammonia to the wider environment are addressed by
several authorities. CERCLA and SARA require reporting of accidental
and intentional releases of ammonia to the atmosphere. Under CERCLA
section 103 and SARA Title III section 304, releases of more than 100
pounds of ammonia must be reported immediately, unless they are
"federally permitted'' such as through the National Pollutant
Discharge Elimination System (NPDES), State Implementation Plans
(SIPs), etc. In such cases, releases are controlled under the
permitting authority
Source: EPA Recycling Rules (http://www.epa.gov/EPA-AIR/2004/March/Day-12/a3817.htm)

[RANGER1]

Went to decommission an ammonia plant that had 15 tonne in it when running .
Plant sat for a year before commencement .
One cold winters morning went to site to start pumping down but found system already in a vacuum ie condensors , liquid reciever etc etc .
People on site said it used to smell in plant room and around liquid reciever ( pretty thick ) . hav'nt smelt anything lately .
The only few gauges on old recips were all reading pressure as someone had isolated them when system had ammonia in it .
So if you wait long enough with a few small leaks , maybe it will empty itself .

[sterl]

http://www.nao.com/ammonia_flares.htm

Certainly one way, maybe not realistic for a 750 kg. one time only exercise...If you are close enough to an existing flare, a small proportion of ammonia is not going to bother it as long as it is at high fire.

[Grizzly]

http://www.nao.com/ammonia_flares.htm

Certainly one way, maybe not realistic for a 750 kg. one time only exercise...If you are close enough to an existing flare, a small proportion of ammonia is not going to bother it as long as it is at high fire.

Sorry Sterl, but it ain't going to happen in the U.K.
The Health and Safety guys over here would blow a gasket.
We have to many of them that don't know about Ammonia trying to tell us what to do already!
Grizzly

[sterl]

Interesting, Grizzly, believe thats a pretty tight set of cuffs in reality.

The US-EPA has approved flares from a number of manufacturers and the people in the ammonia pipeline business pull them around on a trailer about the size of that for an 18-foot boat, behind a pickup truck.

The products of combustion from the ammonia itself are nitrogen and water. Believe the environment tolerates both pretty handily.

The small version of these flares or oxidixers is initially fired with a propane bottle before introduction of ammonia; and is always (re-) ignited using propane.

Check out: http://www.johnzink.com/products/flares/html/biog_jz.htm; who rent portables or will handle the whole topic on a contract basis; United McGill; who are in the environmental business (and thats United Technologies, fly mainly during daytime...)

[Grizzly]

Interesting, Grizzly, believe thats a pretty tight set of cuffs in reality.

The US-EPA has approved flares from a number of manufacturers and the people in the ammonia pipeline business pull them around on a trailer about the size of that for an 18-foot boat, behind a pickup truck.

The products of combustion from the ammonia itself are nitrogen and water. Believe the environment tolerates both pretty handily.

The small version of these flares or oxidixers is initially fired with a propane bottle before introduction of ammonia; and is always (re-) ignited using propane.

Check out: http://www.johnzink.com/products/flares/html/biog_jz.htm; who rent portables or will handle the whole topic on a contract basis; United McGill; who are in the environmental business (and thats United Technologies, fly mainly during daytime...)


Yep! It certainly looks feasible but like I say! We are having trouble convincing anyone, other than existing Ammonia Engineers.
Of the benefits of existing technology (over here I mean).
Still there are still plenty of options available but a very interesting link all the same.
Thanks for the input!
Grizzly