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dannycool
05-02-2009, 07:55 PM
Hi
I have recently been asked to quote for some ppm contracts, but havent a clue how to price them, how much time to allocate per FCU, VRF, Split, AHU etc etc.

For instance would you allow for new filters, belts, etc or charge separatly?

For a chain of shops for example would you quote for the whole chain, or areas or shop by shop basis?

Would you have a major and a minor visit like some ive worked for?

Allow more for access issues (scaffolds maybe)

Also would you charge for a Recce visit or charge more for your first visit, or would that be in the cost per annum?

Really dont know where to start, naturally i dont want prices or figures as we will apply our own labour rates.

Any help would be much appeciated

Thanks in advance
Danny

Brian_UK
05-02-2009, 09:20 PM
A few thoughts for you...

Don't include the cost of spare parts, you never know what the prices will be and it will make your up-front price look high.

Working in shops can be a pain in the arse. Access during 'shop open' times can be severely restricted for work on cassettes/void units etc on the shop floor.

Some work will have to be out of hours.

Beware of shopping centres. They often have their own rules for when 'workers' are allowed on site plus, of course extra security checks and longer sign-in times etc etc.

Beware spreading dust around, it sets off fire alarm systems and closes shopping malls.

A firm I worked for a few years back looked after one of the leading ladies fashion stores and two things we developed were -

1. Get a stock of filters; take them to site and simply swap out the dirty ones for the clean 'uns.

Less site time and disruption of the shop floor. Dirty ones are cleaned off site.

2. Employ "a lad", give him a van, a vacuum cleaner and some cleaning materials etc.

He spends his working time going around each site in turn cleaning/swapping filters, cleaning casings, asking the client if there are any problems which require a visit by a techie or not.

You can pick up extra work that way too.

Apart from the PPM work will you be able to cover all the reactive work for breakdowns etc?

If some sites would be outside your area then investigate using a local contractor.

Try and get accurate asset lists of all of the stores otherwise you might find a couple of huge sites on the list.

Good luck with it.

dannycool
05-02-2009, 11:12 PM
Thanks for the advice Brian!

i know what what you mean about smoke heads ive evacuated about 5 boots stores in my time!!

We already use a few young 'lads' as filter kickers, but its difficult to motivate them, and as they go out on their own for the first time you find the vans get ragged and corners get cut:rolleyes:

What i used to do if PPMs got boring i would go out of my way to find something wrong somewhere no matter how small or how well the system ran.

What i am after more though is advise on pricing stuctures and the like. Ofcourse no figures though!

superswill
05-02-2009, 11:30 PM
sound advise from Brian,just to add to it remember you have a fixed cost when doing PPM works so you are looking to maximize the quality of the site service in a reasonable time to make money out of the contract,if you have 40 hours a year in for one site no good spending 45 hours there,getting replacement filters on site before you attend helps,having spares on site helps in that problems found on PPM visit are fixed first time and are charged for and you day is split up to PPM works and chargeable,site ownership works for us too,one man covers x amount of site,if the PPM standers are poor,you know where to look,also out of hours works may cost you more in engineer rates but if going to site at 6am means your done in three hours thats better than one man fighting a busy shop floor for 6 hours during normal working hours

as for costs iam sure we work on an hour a VRV+half hour for every indoor

and an hour a split

dannycool
05-02-2009, 11:47 PM
Superswill
I suppose what your saying is that it pays to plan your visit properly beforehand, which mean setting up a accurate asset registry. But would that mean making an initial site survey or doing it as part as the first visit.

superswill
06-02-2009, 12:01 AM
depends on the size of the sites if you are quoting for 300 sites it not worth going everyone before hand but if its just a few its better to know what you are going to be responsible for,the first service visit will always be the longest,it is worth making sure its in order and spending that little extra time there,what you lose on the first visit you will make it back on the rest of the visits as there will be less to do,eg the condensers may not need washing need time round ect ect

also access is key do you need towers,ladders ect this needs to be attained before the first visit or you are paying a man on site thats not working because he cant get access to drive there and back again

coolments
06-02-2009, 01:58 AM
Costing a maintenance contract is an art in its self.

One key to succsess at the moment with maintenace is to state you provide all documnetion required to comply with Fgas legislation at no extra cost and do so, its paperwork you should be filling in anyway, state you will give them an Fgas survey on the first visit to check their requirements to comply & an assett register after every visit with all the info on units like, location, refrigerant charges, models & serial numbers, refrigerant types and that you have checked for leaks using either direct or indirect methods, state you will document and provide details for any reactive calls that involve the addition or removal of refrigerant and do so.

This helps as most cutomers dont understand or know how to deal with with Fgas and is a relief for them that all they have to do is put your issued documents in a folder on site, also good for you as you then hold info on the site so when your engineers go and say the board is knackered on the unit in the meeting room you will have the info needed to get a price on a part with out relying on them to write it on the job sheet (especialy if you send a subbie out on a call as your busy).

As for pricing you cant beat the knowledge of a guy thats done it and I assume you have,

if its for a single site customewr that you go to look at then then judge how long you think it would take you to do it, then work it out at your rate you charge plus travel plus to site & say a litre of undiluted coil cleaner for every 5 coils.

As for multiple site quotes that you wont get to look at like a chain of stores, request an asset list (which they most likely will have if its a tender) and take a look at their geographical location and work out an average time and mileage it would take to get there then add a pre fixed amount for each unit on site.

Say you have 50 sites, from 1 mile away to 50 and work out out 1/2 hour per fan foill and 1/2 hour per condenser.

each site you could estimate cost at 25 miles & 1 hour travel plus the the amount of units on site based on your charge rate to get a single figure to present to the client for the whole contract.

Exclude any specialist access equipment, out of hours working or consumables unless they make you aware of it prior to quoting.

Hopefully you get the idea and good luck to you.

Brian_UK
06-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Also you need to cover yourself for any problems that they may already have. You don't want to find yourself responsible for worn-out or broken equipment.

Another potential expense is parking. Can you get free on site parkig or wil you have to use the shopping area car parks and carry your kit to and fro site. It all adds to time and costs.

mfakazi
06-02-2009, 09:17 PM
hello Danny...
All the guys have given you all the advise but I just want to stress something that I personally feelits very important and I know you already have this in mind.If im correct this is your first contract so whatever preparation you make in terms of cost the most important thing for you is get that contract irrespective of what state your business is in,but you still have to meet all your overheads.Im not saying go cheap but to get that contract could be the biggest ever in your business as we all know you can make money from it"you know what I'm talking about"

To motivate the filter boys I think you first need to find yourself decent kids who will go on site clean the filters and see it this as a start for the career always encourage them to further themselves let them go to college,spend a bit of time talking refrigeration to them it all sound silly but its amaizin,I once worked for the guy that had 2trainee engineers today they probable the best engineers in the country well I couldn't stay with them for personal reasons but its something I regreat prob for the rest of my career.Everymorning he would ask us questions he will do anything to explain things....Best engineer I have ever seen in my life...Well that was .....John Fox

Kh1971
07-02-2009, 10:30 AM
HI,

I would like to thank Brain, I am working in this area for the last 11 years and It is strongly recommended to not quote any spare parts in your quote. and always mention that it well be cost plus 15 % or any percentage your agree on togather.

The cost of labour well depend on the site inspection for each location and it is always about your team strength and you beter know how much power they have more than any body else and up how much you can pressure them

Regards

Khalid