Ideas for wall split temp control

[fridge doctor]

Hi,

A client has a holiday let property with 3 wall split AC's. The remotes unfortunately have the facility to be set to continuous running, and we think that the renters will abuse this. He therefore wants to restrict the AC output, and obviously cost is an element to consider. My first thought was interrupting the outdoor (compressor) line with a basic fixed diff thermostat, but I think that this might cycle too quickly. My next thought was the same interruption using a timer, maybe 15mins on 15 mins off. Anyone have any thoughts on this or other practical ideas please ?
Trevor

[nike123]

It is easy, just disable remote control key which activate that function. Any TV service shop could do that.

[paul_h]

get cheap univeral remotes that don't have anything but basic function?

[headgasket]

Hi this will cost a bit but will pay for it self in the long run, find the fuse board for the A/C and install a pay to use meter,

[nike123]

Idea to restrict someone to use AC as he want and in the same time account him in rental price that luxury, is very unfair to me, and, in place of guest, I will complain and refuse to pay for that "additional value of service" and probably leave that apartment for good.
If I bought time in apartment with conditioned space, I want that, all time while rented, my space is at my desired temperature since I paying for that option. Every restriction on that part is denial of service for which I have been charged, and I will refuse to pay for that.

Having that in mind, I will accept (as guest) only two modification:
1. Switching off the AC when doors and windows are open but ensuring that in closed state it is enough space ventilation
2. Restricting temperature adjustment in range off max -3K from 21°C for cooling and max +3K from 21 in heating

All other restrictions would not be acceptable from me.

One example of them is switching off AC when I am not in apartment for longer than 10-15 min, except renter has mean to prepare room temperature for me before I come back in.

I have been many times asked to make restrictions on use of AC as described in OP post (and more stringent) but, my advice to renter, and my solution is as I described above. Savings are made and comfort to customer is not lowered. It is easier to do that with Fan-coil systems, but could be done with split type AC also, if they have power failure restore capability.

[nike123]

The remotes unfortunately have the facility to be set to continuous runningr
Could you explain what you mean by that it could be set to "continuous running".
If you mean at Test function for thermostat bypass it is usually automatically reset after 15 min.
If you mean that guest could set temperature few degrees higher or lower than what is usually comfortable temperature, than he will soon reset that to comfortable level when temperature in room reach uncomfortable level.
Don't forget that air-conditioned rooms are rented as such, and that customers paying for their comfort.

[brunstar]

what brand of air con are you looking at controlling as different manufacturers can give you different control ideas.

[headgasket]

the last time i was in Greece on holiday, they wanted 25 euros a week for the controller, that's an option. I did not take up the offer, but i found a run button under the front cover,

[airefresco]

50% of our business is in rental villas and apartments and we fit coin meters in most of them. Most of our clients take the option of the meter. They are normally set at 1€ an hour on the standard timers, which basically start counting down as soon as the air conditioning starts to draw current. They stop counting down when the unit stops. It has taken a little trial and error with us, because there is a threshold of current that is allowed to drawn before the timer starts to count down. On inverter units, they draw a small amount of current even when they are switched off, so we had to modify the timers slightly to increase the threshold, but it works well now.

Another option we offer, which is more complicated, is a meter that moniters the amount of current being drawn, and charges accordingly. This is more suitable for places where they have a few units. With the other option the guest pay 1€ an hour whether they are using 1 unit or 20 units, so it´s a bit unfair. With this option they only pay for what they use. But these meters are not availbe as coin meters. You get a little paper card, with a set value, 5€, 10€, 20€, etc. The guest puts the card in the meter and is credited with the face amount of the card. I would avoid these if you fit induvidual meters to each unit.

As Nike said, some guests expect to have the air conditionig for free, but what our client has found is if they charge the same amount for the villa/apartment as similar places without air conditioning, then the guests tend to be happy to pay for the air conditioning. When it´s 40ºc a euro is a very small amount for a cool room.

Let me know if you need any info on the meters.

[fridge doctor]

Hi all thanks for replies so far.
Nike123 : When you press the remote temp down, the display drops to 18. One more press and you get 'cont'
Brunstar : You will never ever have heard of them... Chinese - Emesys.
Headgasket : Knew that was a possibility but how many renters will know that - just us brainy ones huh ?
Airefresco : Like the idea, but for some unknown reason coin meters here in Cyprus are just not used for anything, they don't exist.

Customer hasn't decided on the right course yet in terms of pitching his rental price with air con included, or seeking additional premium for use of same. Or even basic rent plus all electricity to be charged for I suppose is another option?

[airefresco]

They didn´t exist here either until we imported them from England. It´s a good time to do it as well, while the exchange rate is rubbish. We normally buy 10 at time, and sell most of them while DHL try to find lanzarote on their map.

[Blueboy]

I think that if you buy cheap Chinese air-con you get expensive running cost and therefore a false economy and increased enviromental impact. My advice is by some quality inverter drive Japanese units and sell the Chinese ones to someone who lives there and wants some cheap air-con

[airefresco]

The thing is, on small Island you can´t be too fussy what you fit. Cyprus is probably a more "developed" than here so maybe there´s a stronger market, but you have to be able to offer the cheaper Chinese brands, otherwise you loose business to builders who will sell them for a third of the price of a Daikin or whatever.

I imagine Fridge Doctor is in pretty much the same boat as me, where a large majority of the work is on holiday villas and apartments or just general domestic market. The average client doesn´t really care how efficient the unit is. We always offer (on Domestic quotes) Daikin as option 1, General or Samsung as option 2 and then whatever Chinese rubbish is flying around as a third option. In addition, I put the price the coin timer on there too. Most times the client will go for the Daikin normally with the timer because we are the only ones who offer it. But the clients who go for the cheaper option always go for the timer, because they figure they are saving money because the running costs don´t matter (their clients are paying for it). The jobs I don´t get 9/10 times have a cheap Chinese unit installed, and I use that term loosely. I hardly ever lose a job on the rentals side, purely down to the timers.

[paul_h]

Hi all thanks for replies so far.
When you press the remote temp down, the display drops to 18. One more press and you get 'cont'

Then just replace the remotes like I suggested. Most remotes won't have that option.

Or,
Do the a/cs have a memory, ie, if you cut the power, then turn them back on they go to the last setting they had?
Do they have an auto button under the grill which normally defaults to 24C?
If so, just take away the remotes all together, mount a switch to the wall that cuts the power, so the people there just turn on and off the ac easily and only get the auto mode 24C.

[fridge doctor]

That's a very good point Paul H, I will check that one out. Thing is, we don't really want them set at 18 either, because that's almost the same as 'constant' so removing them altogether sounds good.

Airefresco, you are exactly right, my business is the same as yours. Any chance you could give me a link to these particular timers you have sourced ? Much appreciated.

Trevor

[back2space]

Then just replace the remotes like I suggested. Most remotes won't have that option.

Or,
Do the a/cs have a memory, ie, if you cut the power, then turn them back on they go to the last setting they had?
Do they have an auto button under the grill which normally defaults to 24C?
If so, just take away the remotes all together, mount a switch to the wall that cuts the power, so the people there just turn on and off the ac easily and only get the auto mode 24C.

The auto mode on my a/c if you press the button under the fascia does not switch the a/c back on if there is a power interuption. Power restore only works if the ac has been switched on at the remote controller and not for emergency operation.

However if the unit switches back on after power cut you could pre set the temperature and mode operation and operate via switch.

[fridge doctor]

So what you mean then, is set the machine up on the remote say 24 degrees. Then take the remote away and tell the user(s) to operate using the main switch for on/off ?

[paul_h]

Yeah, that's the set up. But rather than getting them to to go outside to switch the c/b or isolator on, or getting them to stand on chairs to reach the indoor unit button/switch, actually install a switch on the wall inside that's easy for them to operate.
Either a standard light switch for small units directly, or a swicth powering a relay for larger units.
It needs to have memory though, some units go to there last known running condition if power is interrupted. In the case that they don't automatically go back on, you'll need to run wiring from the indoor PCB "auto" button, to a push button switch on the wall (unless you expect them to stand on chairs to reach the button under the grille.)