Chillers = Belong to Refrigeration or Air conditionning sector?

[Ms_Freeze]

Hello, I am trying to make an exhaustive list of all products that are included in the commercial refrigeration sector (!!).

For "chillers" I am having troubles... Should these products be classified as refrigeration products or A/C products?

Can we really identify them as products? I see them more as "installations" rather than stand alone products.

I don't expect an straigh answer, rathers some though from experts on the field! Thanks!

[NoNickName]

Chillers (as in "liquid chillers") are definitely a/c equipment.

[US Iceman]

IMO, chillers are application specific. If they are chilling water or a glycol mixture for air conditioning then they fall into the HVAC market.

Chillers used for any other temperature range would be used for some process related function.

That is not to say you cannot de-rate a HVAC chiller and use it for some other purpose also.;)

[frank]

A difficult task to define 'A/C' I think.

I have chillers that are used to provide a cooled water circuit that supplies indoor fan coils that condition air to a 'Comfort Level' for human occupation (offices)

I also have chillers running chilled water circuits at -8C that condition air for food preparation areas.

Both chillers are used to provide 'Air Conditioning' but the air is used for different purposes.

Would you consider that one chiller is for 'Air Conditioning' as the end use is for human comfort and that one chiller is for Refrigeration as the end use is for food production??

I would class both chillers as refrigeration but being used for different purposes.

A refrigerator conditions the air inside the cabinet to control the food temperature at 3-5C. Would you class this as 'Air Conditioning?

Technically, 'Air Conditioning' encompasses cooling, heating, filtration and humidity control of the air, so, any cooling equipment that cannot achieve this should be classed as 'refrigeration'.

Is it safe to come out of the box yet?? :confused:

[Ms_Freeze]

Hello, thank you for these very interesting replies!

I agree that the classification needs to consider the end use.

I will continue to investigate! Thanks!

[Plank!]

Chillers are a refrigeration product.
They cool fluids - the fluid may then be used for process cooling, A/C, Ice-Rink etc

The way I see it all a chiller does is cool fluids (be it water, glycol, brine etc)
Sure they can be used for A/C but thats not really the point.
I service units of 1.5MW and greater, with screw comps on ammonia it may be used for A/C but its most certainly refrigeration plant.

Chillers should have thier own catagory :D

[Mozambezi]

Air-cons are designed for relatively small loads. If it is building, then it would be small or medium air-con system. Disadvantage of this type of equipment - gas leak detection.

Chillers are more specific application. In big buildings they are working as part of HVAC equipment - VAV, CAV, damper systems. They do same job as air-cons, but deliver cold water. Pricey to install, cheap to maintain in long run.
Specialist applications /refrigeration, industrial stuff/. Usually it is bespoke designed system with common components ... doesn't matter a/c or chillers. Staff must be trained particularly to service this equipment.

Commercial refrigeration.... We are talking about Air-con plants to cool down cabinets, rooms, cases and etc.

In UK market u've got 4 types of refrigeration engineers: Air-con guys, Supermarket/ catering fridge guys, Chiller mates and Industrial proffi.
It is easy to merge between air-con and supermarkets. Problem with chiller tech is, that equipment is big and more expensive to brake plus market is limited.... Also, because of service price, they are dealing with refurbishing jobs on compressors rather part changing. This is labor consuming job, so FM and Industrial companies prefer don't deal themselves with chillers.

That's it. I agree, that my answer is not ideal.

[Ms_Freeze]

Mozanbezi, why do you say the market is limited?

Could be that chillers do have their own category!

[CHIEF DELPAC]

Ms Its all refrigeration. Air conditioning is one of many sub groups. Therefore to put chillers in any particular category would depend on the service they are in. C.D.

[icecube51]

where will we put the multi-chillers ?? the ones whit cool & hot water tanks simultaniusly ???

Ice

[Ms_Freeze]

I have another question: are there technical differences between chillers designed for refrigeration applications and those designed for AC??
Thanks!

[Toosh]

I have another question: are there technical differences between chillers designed for refrigeration applications and those designed for AC??
Thanks!

They might need to be sized differently for lower temp and might have to use glycol

Norm :cool:

[CHIEF DELPAC]

Ms Freeze, In my limited experience with refrigeration chillers, the largest being 300 tons, that I have used are shell and tube with the NH3 in the vessel and the liquid to be chilled in the tubes.There are also plate chillers. The one HVAC system that I operated had 200 ton lithium bromide adsorbtion chiller complete with a water cooling tower and a hot water generator.It also was of the shell and tube type. The chillers are not interchangeable, as they are designed for different uses.So there would be technical differences based on design pressures, temperatures, rates of flow and other operating needs. C.D.

[Chillerguy22]

I chillers I design/build I would catagorize as "Industrial Process Cooling" equipment. When you are speccing components sometimes you work within A/C guidelines and sometimes you work within refrigeration guidelines. A chiller really is a unique product as it can be designed a million different ways to provide the same end product.

"Standard" leaving fluid temperature on an off the shelf chiller is 45F, giving you a SST of around 35F. Would a SST of 35F suggest an AC or refrigeration application?

The majority of the products I design have a SST anywhere from 55F to -40F but that is all custom built to order equipment.

[chillerman2006]

Chillers are refrigeration - what ever the application they are used for - a/c or process

[frank]

Shall I start a Poll then so the votes can be counted........or do we all agree that Chillers are Refrigeration?

[chillerman2006]

Shall I start a Poll then so the votes can be counted........or do we all agree that Chillers are Refrigeration?

Hi frank

I think we all agree, but a poll will be good to see how many are still confused :D

[Mozambezi]

We could talk about power /energy/ plant chillers... Chillerguy is correct, posting Industrial.
Chillers are technological equipment.
On buildings, they are A/C ...

[josei]

I have another question: are there technical differences between chillers designed for refrigeration applications and those designed for AC??
Thanks!
Poultry industries use Chillers open at low temperatures [4 °C]. Its a complete different aplication from standar A/C Chiller.

[mfakazi]

Yeah I think chillers qualify as both A/C and Refrigeration. I have worked on chillers in Food production cooling sandwiches( I miss that job),Chilled water in the building,Injection moulding machine.

[Ms_Freeze]

I'm still confused: on one hand you are saying that chillers belong to the refrigeration sector. On the other hand chillers for refrigeration purposes and chillers for AC applications are technically very different?

If there are technical differences I would rather then say that some chillers belong to the ref. sector and others to the AC sector. no?

thanks for your inputs so far!

[US Iceman]

I think the easiest way to classify your request is this: Chillers are refrigeration systems. Like other refrigeration systems they are used for various purposes and applications. Chilling glycol for process applications or cooling water for air conditioning are only two of the many applications.

[mrfreezeit]

The application and size of the chiller is going to determine it's place. Package units may be refrigeration or a/c and on the commercial level. The term chiller in my mind describes the system, heat exchanger is the component used to facilitate the refrigerant to refrigerant heat exchange, whether plate and frame, shell and plate, brazed plate, shell and tube, etc.