Panasonic W24EKR

[rude]

Hi Guys i have a problem with this unit. Complaint is that it leaks water. Customer was running unit on 19 degrees and the unit is located in a corner of the room.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/123MMM/Image043.jpg

So upon inspection i noticed that under the drip tray, the plastic is saturated with water drops.

as per photo
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/123MMM/Image039.jpg

Im not sure what would cause this? would it be the temperature setting? short of refrigerant?

I also noticed that the pipes going behind the unit werent fully taped up and could see the copper pipe sweating. So i recommended them to call the installer back as it was a new unit to tape up pipes properly and make sure there insulated.

I Also tested the drain by pouring 2 liters of water down. no leaks.

Now after all that i have been advised to recover the gas and weigh the correct charge back in.


Any other ideas guys?

i didnt take an air off temp or air on. but the room was quite warm and humid. Outside ambiant was 37 degrees. Also the indoor coil wasnt icing up and air off felt cold as in 8-12 degrees ( rough guess)

[stefs_cruiser]

Unit has air in the system or is under charged.

[paul_h]

Reclaim, evac and re-weigh.
It's common for systems slightly undercharged to have water drip off the coil.
Today I had a system with a refrigerant leak that was dripping water off the coil myself.
It's something I've seem heaps of times.

Though when it's older units with an "A" coil, you've got to dis-assemble an lift up the coil to make sure the drain for the rear coil isn't cracked.
It won't be the case for that a/c, and the giveaway for older systems with a cracked drain is water only comes from one spot, not all across like systems slightly short of refrigerant like this one is.

edit: When reclaiming, weigh the reclaimed charge, if it's low, you might have a leak which of course you have to find and repair. If there's proper charge, maybe air was in the system as stef said. Either case, after pressure testing and leak repair use a micron guage to verify good vacuum and no air/moisture etc

[rude]

Thankyou looks like ill be on the right track with taking the charge out and weighing a new lot back in.

[Makanic]

hey hey Ive seen this before while charging the system after repairs,
hot humid day ,run out of refrigerant & had to come back to finish charging it, 400gms short.. when the charge was correct the dripping stoped....Yep low on refigerant :)

[rude]

yeah update i took out charge and weighed in a new charge and unit worked fine. Couldnt find a leak so may have been undercharged from factory? Anyways all fixed.

[stefs_cruiser]

Unlikely that it was undercharged from factory.;)

In some cases if people don't use two spanners on the 3 way valve, you can sometime get enough distortion in the valve when tightening the flare to loose refrigerant when evacuating......

How long is the pipe run?

[rude]

Pipe run was about 2.5meters so not that long at all.

[paul_h]

Out of thousands of warranty cases, I've only had four systems that have lost their pre-charge before installation, three were condenser coil damage, one was a bad factory weld.

The rest of them seemed to have leaking service valves (whether by installer twisting them or just leaking valves on their own) and were charged correctly before install but lost some charge when piped up and evacuated. Seen heaps of them where I couldn't find a leak and the system never broke down after full reclaim and evac, probably the majority of the cases, a few hundred systems short of refrigerant this way.

Still the fact that this happened many times means the installers never checked for a proper evac before opening the pipes or used a micron guage, (they would have known something was wrong otherwise).

I've seen heaps of reletively new systems (1-2 y/o) develop leaks on the condenser coil later on though too. Usually the condenser entry at the top, or condenser outlet or strainer at the bottom too. I'm not talking about panasonic here, just generally about all the systems I had to repair.
edit: But 99% of leaks were bad flares anyway, but I've even seen about 5 leaking indoor units which of course aren't pre-charged or even pressurised in most brands.

[rude]

The only installer leaks i usually get is when they haven't used leak lock on the flares. Now i know you can argue that if you do the flare right and tighten the flares with torque wrenches you wont get leaks. But its just added security i spose.

[stefs_cruiser]

Find me one manufacturer of domestic splits that supports the use of leaklock on their equipment.....

It should not be used......it just gets in by accident, and blocks systems....

[rude]

If applied wrongly yes. But if its on the thread it shouldn't pose any risk? Please correct me if im wrong?

[paul_h]

If I did the flare, I don't use leak lock. If someone else did the flare and it's suspect, but there's not enough pipe to cut and reflare, I always use it.
I've never had a problem in a system I've used leak lock on, and I've used it on heaps. I'm not an installer where I use it and then forget about it, I used to do warranty so I've seen the same systems for 5 yrs, and if there was a problem, it would have shown up in the 5 yr period I think.
Just my opinion you understand.
In the same regards, you find me one refrig mech that thinks having a system without a drier in it is a good idea, while manufacturers seem to think they don't need them.
So I don't always follow the manufacturers philosphy as "their way being the right way" unless they are paying me :D.

[nike123]

The only installer leaks i usually get is when they haven't used leak lock on the flares. Now i know you can argue that if you do the flare right and tighten the flares with torque wrenches you wont get leaks. But its just added security i spose.

I agree with you. My practice is to always apply Leak Lock on the flares. 99,9% installed units newer develop leak at flares after that.

[Makanic]

yeah update i took out charge and weighed in a new charge and unit worked fine. Couldnt find a leak so may have been undercharged from factory? Anyways all fixed.

undercharged from factory?????

More like bad flare. or system purged.
Bet you the installer was a sparky or a plumber...
Artick Licenced to destroy LOL

[Makanic]

If I did the flare, I don't use leak lock. If someone else did the flare and it's suspect, but there's not enough pipe to cut and reflare, I always use it.
I've never had a problem in a system I've used leak lock on, and I've used it on heaps. I'm not an installer where I use it and then forget about it, I used to do warranty so I've seen the same systems for 5 yrs, and if there was a problem, it would have shown up in the 5 yr period I think.
Just my opinion you understand.
In the same regards, you find me one refrig mech that thinks having a system without a drier in it is a good idea, while manufacturers seem to think they don't need them.
So I don't always follow the manufacturers philosphy as "their way being the right way" unless they are paying me :D.

off topic .. No one use,s NYLOG ?????????????

[paul_h]

Now i've got the same problem.
Sharp split system that had this problem a few months after install.
One warranty agent reclaimed and recharged fault still there.
I reclaimed (charge was right on) evac and recharged, aparently fault is still there.
Doesn't seem to be a refrig leak or charge problem as the last guy must have charged correctly as I weighed what I took out of the system and it was spot on.
Doesn't seem to be a restriction as the suc pressure was 800kPa (R410a) and the temp was 5C. It won't be air or incondensibles as I vacced the system out properly.
Anyone come across a tough one like this?

edit: Of course I checked and flushed the main drain, and the rear drain for cracks and dirt too.
sharp inverter AY-XP30EJ.

[nike123]

Now i've got the same problem.
Sharp split system that had this problem a few months after install.
One warranty agent reclaimed and recharged fault still there.
I reclaimed (charge was right on) evac and recharged, aparently fault is still there.
Doesn't seem to be a refrig leak or charge problem as the last guy must have charged correctly as I weighed what I took out of the system and it was spot on.
Doesn't seem to be a restriction as the suc pressure was 800kPa (R410a) and the temp was 5C. It won't be air or incondensibles as I vacced the system out properly.
Anyone come across a tough one like this?

edit: Of course I checked and flushed the main drain, and the rear drain for cracks and dirt too.

Icing is problem?
Check air in and out temperature.
Check air flow.

[paul_h]

No frost on the coil, air on/off was normal, 30C/13C

[rude]

When i went back to mine i got a wet bulb and dry buld temp of return and supply air. Told my boss the figures and all was well. Maby get those and someone might be able to help?

[nike123]

No frost on the coil, air on/off was normal, 30C/13C
Than humidity is high and air dew point is high so condensation on parts at cold air path is normal.
Measure wet bulb temperature of in and out air with some damp cloth at thermistor if you don't have humidity probe.

[nike123]

No frost on the coil, air on/off was normal, 30C/13C

Your evaporation temperature is 3,9°C and air on is 30°C. That is 26K TD and is excessive. It should be around 7-10°C evaporation temperature. Check bearings of indoor fan and that is happily rotating when turned by hand.